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Thread: The liberal Bostonian wife learned why I carry

  1. #1
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    The liberal Bostonian wife learned why I carry

    My wife and I come from two different worlds, I grew up in the south around firearms, she grew up in Boston and never saw a gun until she met me. My firearms have been a sticking point since we've been married, and every time I purchase a new one I have to hear "Yey, another useless gun." That changed tonight.

    We were lounging around our apartment when we heard a pretty nasty argument going on in the parking lot. I went out on our balcony to see what was going on and it seemed to be just some drunk soldier yelling about dumb stuff, as they tend to do. The other guy, he'll be guy from here on, with the drunk was trying to calm him down, but Drunky wouldn't have it until he got into his car. Guy starts trying to convince Drunky to let him drive Drunky home, so I shrug it off as it seems to have calmed down and go back inside.

    A couple of minutes later there's a third voice and the yelling has started in earnest again so I go out and look again. This time there's a third dude ("Dude") who's trying to talk Drunky down, but this apparently agitates Drunky even more and the shirts come off. A security guard who got off shift pulls into the lot and starts to intervene, she gets in between Drunky and Dude and tells them to stop and seperate. As Dude grabs his shirt off the ground Drunky punches Dude in the face and the guard pushes Drunky away from Dude. Dude starts walking back into the building and I ask him if he's alright and if he wants me to call the cops, he says he's fine and walks into his apartment.

    Guard tells Drunky she doesn't know who he is but he needs to leave now, he throws some nasty words at her and gets back in his car. Guy's still trying to convince Drunky to let him drive him home as Drunky keeps saying "F You, I F'ing hate all of you." Another neighbor, call him Alpha, comes downstairs to see what's going on. Then Drunky says "You know what, F' YOU" and I see him lean across his car through the back window and grab something. Next thing anyone knows Drunky's got a foot long knife in Guy's face and starts to wave it around going from Guy to the guard to Alpha. I ran into the bedroom and grabbed my Glock 21 and headed downstairs while telling the wife to call 911.

    I've got my Glock at the low ready as I come down stairs and head to the group telling Guy and Alpha to move out of the way. The guard sprays Drunky in the face with riot mace and he somehow manages to get in his car and starts it. Alpha sees my wife on the balcony and yells out the license plate number as I move around five feet from the front drivers side of the car, just off set so if he tried to gun forward I could move out of the way, and yell for him to get out of the car. Guy starts his car and moves it behind Drunky's car blocking him in. We yell for him to get out of the car, realizing he couldn't go anywhere he gets out of his car. As he got out I had my sights at center mass quickly checking his hands for the knife which he'd left in the car so I lowered my weapon as Alpha and Guy move in. Dude shows back up and Drunky moves into the middle of the street. The guard grabs her cuffs and tells him to get on the ground, when he refuses I yell at him to get on the ground and Dude takes him down from behind kicking the back of his knee. Once on the ground they get the cuffs on and pull him to the curb.

    As everyone catches their breath I stuck the gun in my pocket with the butt visible (left the holster upstairs) and the cops begin to show up. The first cop asks, directing toward Drunky, "Is this the guy with the knife?" and everyone says yes. Then he asked who had the gun, I said I do, he asked where it's at and I lifted my shirt more and turned my hip toward him. He said to let him see it and asked what it was, I told him it was a Glock21 .45 as he pulls it from my pocket, he walks ten feet away, clears it, and sets it to the side. He asked me why I had it, told him I saw Drunky pull the knife from upstairs so I grabbed my gun and came downstairs to help. He talked to the senior officer on scene and had me walk away from the group to give me the glock back and told me to take it back upstairs. I did so and went back down and gave my full statement. They took down my information and told me to have a nice night.

    When I got back upstairs the wife was waiting and hugged me. "And that's why I carry, because a situation can go from bad to worse in the blink of an eye." In her defense, this was the first time she had seen a situation like that and made her realize they're not as rare as she thought. She said she'll never question my carrying and my shooting hobby again, so I guess we'll see how long that lasts.

    OK so what did I do wrong?

  2. #2
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Everything turned out all right, can't argue with the results.

    In retrospect, I would be very hesitant to inject myself and my firearm into a deadly force encounter that didn't involve someone I love, or know, and am absolutely sure is an innocent victim.

    The turning point I see is the security officer being assaulted with a deadly weapon. She is private security for the complex or does she work somewhere else? Is she in uniform and armed? Did she have the option to not become involved?

    All these are factors I would weigh before I made someone else's problem, my problem. Do I want to shoot and possibly kill someone when I don't have all the facts AND a vested interest in the outcome? Do I want to inadvertently subject myself to negative media attention, possible physical and emotional trauma, jail, prosecution and prison? Usually, no.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  3. #3
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    The question becomes a legal versus an ethical and moral one.

    As the paramedic above alluded to, injecting ones self into a situation that didn't involve somebody you personally know, could cause criminal or civil liabilities unforeseen by simply doing the right thing.

    My personal take on the information provided is that you did something that not too many people do, and that is the right thing.

    Being an Army vet myself, I know why you likely had to, as your personal integrity could not bear the thought of a man dying because of your lack of action. Furthermore, as is learned time and time again in the Army, and is a staple in life itself, is the fact that doing the right thing, is almost never easy. In fact, if it seems easy, it may just not be the right thing to do.

    Good job on your behalf, and it is good to hear that your wife now understands. Not only were you more safe, but the other two as well, simply by the fact you had a firearm.

    Guns save lives.

    It's good your wife has now seen this first hand.

    Take this opportunity to teach her, if she will learn.

    Thankfully, in this case, everything worked out for the best.
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    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    folks say, dont get into some one else problems, BUT
    good people need to help other good people when they are in need of help.
    bad guy was threatening good people with a knife.

    I think you did the good right thing, that needed to be done!
    you had a gun for the defense of yourself, others and the state.
    your gun was the deciding factor in quelling this threat.
    you used it carefully and properly, responsibly!
    you may have saved the lives of 2 good people that night.
    the cops can be commended for their proper actions toward your being armed also.

    I am proud of the way you handled the situation that night!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    @Paramedic, to answer the question about the security officer, she works somewhere else and just happened to be coming home in the middle of all this. She had a holster on her duty belt, but no firearm, didn't think to ask why. She did have the option to not become involved, but she did anyway.

    To answer the vested interest portion, I had a vested interest in the situation, the soldiers involved. Sans the security guard, everyone involved was a soldier, three of us are NCOs, and as an NCO my duty to the drunk soldier to make sure he was alright and taken care of shifted to the soldier he pulled a foot long knife on. I would have subjected myself to bad publicity, physical and emotional trauma, jail, and prison in defense of that soldier. I've risked life and limb for my soldiers while deployed, why wouldn't I back home? Likewise, I've defended civilians in combat, and would do so here as well. If this situation had involved only civilians I would've done the same thing.

    @slowfiveoh and Defender, thanks for the support guys.

  6. #6
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    As an old NCO, let me say that you did what an NCO is supposed to do. A well-earned salute to you!!

    I don't remember the regs too well, but if I remember correctly, if you had not intervened, one or more of the soldiers had gotten hurt, and someone let it out that you witnessed it and did not take action, you might have been subject to UCMJ action. Something you might want to check on. As I said, it has been a long time since I had to consult a Manual for Courts Martial or the UCMJ.

    I would suspect very strongly that this will have a lasting effect on your wife. Women tend to remember things like this for a long, long time. Just as they will remember forever the one time you forgot your anniversary or her birthday!

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    When walking into a situation like this, i would wait only long enough to determin the correct side to defend. I'm Air Force and a lot of our younger guys like to treat it like a 9-5. Like i'm only your Sergeant during duty hours. BS... i'll jerk a knot in you any time you need it. You not only possibly saved that woman but, you saved that troop from being a murderer. Morality and legality don't always walk hand in hand. Just because it may e illegal doesn't mean it isn't moraly correct. You have to ba able to look in the mirror every morning. You have to be able to stand what you see.

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    here here +1

    Devery

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    First, I'm glad it all turned out well.

    The only suggestion I might have is to not answer the officers' questions w/o an attorney.
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
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    Regular Member VetteFreakC5's Avatar
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    Airborne! Gah of course I missed the news last night
    "American parachutists -- devils in baggy pants, are less than 100m from my outpost line. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when, or how, they will strike next. Seems like the black hearted devils are everywhere...." Found in the diary of a German Officer who opposed the 504 PIR on the Anzio beachhead in WWII

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    Campaign Veteran Cavalryman's Avatar
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    Liability is always something to consider, but personally I could not just stand by and watch someone else be stabbed. The fact that all involved were soldiers and the OP was an NCO does definitely change the dynamic and the degree of responsibility, but even absent those factors I would still have gotten involved. Maybe I would regret it, but I would also regret having allowed someone to be hurt or killed when I perhaps could have prevented it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    As an old NCO, let me say that you did what an NCO is supposed to do. A well-earned salute to you!!
    +1 on this! As a former NCO and current officer, I would see it as your responsibility to respond when things clearly had gotten out of hand.

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    As someone who has had to draw his handgun to defend a stranger, I think you did everything right. I was in a similar situation where I was the only military personnel involved. The police simply took my statement and that was it. I never heard from them again.

    My question for you is, how long did it take for the adrenaline to wear off. I was so loaded with it afterward that I shook off and on for a couple of hours. Of course, I'd never had to point a gun at another person before, either, so I don't know if that was normal or not.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    My question for you is, how long did it take for the adrenaline to wear off. I was so loaded with it afterward that I shook off and on for a couple of hours. Of course, I'd never had to point a gun at another person before, either, so I don't know if that was normal or not.
    Not long actually. Once the cop gave me the Glock back and told me to put it up I was good to go. Between combat and lots of training, this was nothing. I was more excited by the fact that I won't have to hear a ration of crap about buying a gun again. lol

    @Cavalryman, you wouldn't happen to be in England would you?
    Last edited by ABNinfantryman; 03-07-2011 at 08:07 PM.

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    I'm glad all worked out well in the end. Personally I feel you did the right thing, although I also feel you got lucky by not being charged with some ridiculous Fayetteville version of "justice".

    I'm glad your wife had a chance to see your side in action, too. Sometimes it takes a little scare to see what the deal is. I'm just happy that she didn't have to see worse. Fayetteville is no place to play around in when it comes to this stuff.

  16. #16
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNinfantryman View Post
    @Paramedic, to answer the question about the security officer, she works somewhere else and just happened to be coming home in the middle of all this. She had a holster on her duty belt, but no firearm, didn't think to ask why. She did have the option to not become involved, but she did anyway.

    To answer the vested interest portion, I had a vested interest in the situation, the soldiers involved. Sans the security guard, everyone involved was a soldier, three of us are NCOs, and as an NCO my duty to the drunk soldier to make sure he was alright and taken care of shifted to the soldier he pulled a foot long knife on. I would have subjected myself to bad publicity, physical and emotional trauma, jail, and prison in defense of that soldier. I've risked life and limb for my soldiers while deployed, why wouldn't I back home? Likewise, I've defended civilians in combat, and would do so here as well. If this situation had involved only civilians I would've done the same thing.

    @slowfiveoh and Defender, thanks for the support guys.
    If I may second and third the others that support your actions, ah BIG Hooah to you!!! Your actions probably saved live(s) that night. If not the ones he confronted then perhaps his (Guy) You Sergeant and the others are Sheepdogs, as are most of us that understand your reason you confronted and gained control of the situation. I am a DA Cop myself, and like the security guard would have shown up with an empty holster, with one exception. I carry my concealed piece with me in a lock box in the car with the ammunition separated and locked up. As soon as I am off post the weapon comes out of the lockbox and gets loaded. I am a target in the local community, the gangs here make their bones by killing a cop. And even tho' I have no jurisdiction off the military installation the uniform I wear spells COP.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    The turning point I see is the security officer being assaulted with a deadly weapon. She is private security for the complex or does she work somewhere else? Is she in uniform and armed? Did she have the option to not become involved?
    Six of one, half dozen of another, literally. She brought the mace but not a gun, you brought the gun but not the mace... Fortunately, you both brought a brain each.
    Last edited by Kirbinator; 03-26-2011 at 01:21 AM.
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    to me, this seems like a drunken fist fight that got worse when someone tried to break it up. jesus, let the guys fight. they'll feel better afterwards

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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    to me, this seems like a drunken fist fight that got worse when someone tried to break it up. jesus, let the guys fight. they'll feel better afterwards

    When I was young the local Sheriff would let a couple of guys duke it out as long as one was not really hurting the other, no permanent damage. Then he would tell them to go clean up and go home. It was RARE that anyone went to jail. If someone did go to jail, he would take statements and it was always the one he determined was not acting in self defense.

    Now it seems that LE doesn't care if it was self defense, they are going to arrest and charge you for assault, often as a felony when it is only a knuckle duster. It has gotten past ridiculous.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    to me, this seems like a drunken fist fight that got worse when someone tried to break it up. jesus, let the guys fight. they'll feel better afterwards
    Like I said, I didn't get involved other than asking the one guy if he was alright until the drunk kid pulled a foot long knife out on the guy he wasn't fighting with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNinfantryman View Post
    Like I said, I didn't get involved other than asking the one guy if he was alright until the drunk kid pulled a foot long knife out on the guy he wasn't fighting with.
    "A security guard who got off shift pulls into the lot and starts to intervene, she gets in between Drunky and Dude and tells them to stop and seperate. "

    that was what i was referring to

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    I figured, just making sure I was clear of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNinfantryman View Post
    @Cavalryman, you wouldn't happen to be in England would you?
    No -- Alaska.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNinfantryman View Post
    My wife and I come from two different worlds, I grew up in the south around firearms, she grew up in Boston and never saw a gun until she met me.
    Good job on undoing the damage the MA propaganda did to your wife. I'm from Boston I know how bad it is first hand. The DAY I got my VA drivers license to the gun shop I went, the South is F'ing awesome!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    They sure did like to tell some interesting stories way back in your day didnt they!

    you might want to clarify that statement, lest I not translate it properly.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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