Detained By Metro On The Strip

timf343 · Mar 6, 2011

Alot of fun as usual! Myles or Dave, please, provide the details on the pleasant encounter you had with Metro once my wife and I left you!

DON`T TREAD ON ME · Mar 7, 2011

I was holding back, cause I thought Mplannet should tell it... If he doesnt soon i will break it down. He has the photo and should rightly be the one to do it however

Sabotage70 · Mar 7, 2011

DON`T TREAD ON ME said:
I was holding back, cause I thought Mplannet should tell it... If he doesnt soon i will break it down. He has the photo and should rightly be the one to do it however

Damn, I wish I would have stuck around. As it turned out I could have. I was thinking my wife was going to be heading home at 9. That's when the store closes.

She didn't leave for another hour after that.

Can you at least give us a hint as to the location of the alleged incident. I know in front of the Sugar Factory one metro's finest got an eye full of my sidearm.

I kept moving so as not to give them a chance to get inquisitive.

jdholmes · Mar 7, 2011

Sabotage70 said:
Damn, I wish I would have stuck around. As it turned out I could have. I was thinking my wife was going to be heading home at 9. That's when the store closes. She didn't leave for another hour after that.

Can you at least give us a hint as to the location of the alleged incident. I know in front of the Sugar Factory one metro's finest got an eye full of my sidearm. I kept moving so as not to give them a chance to get inquisitive.

You have all of us that weren't there very curious now! Somebody gotta tell a story!

markm · Mar 8, 2011

MPlannette said:
So I went down to the Strip tonight to try to get some candid photos of people and ended up in cuffs. I started off photographing in some of the casinos and walkways and ended up in front of the Bellagio at about 9:45pm, which happened to be when the water show was starting. I was in the process of taking some shots of people silhouetted against the light from the water show when I overheard two metro officers, one male, one female, ask two middle-aged black men if they were smoking any "weed". This immediately pulled my attention towards the situation...

Badge Numbers

Male Officer-14161

Female Officer-13587

Hello MPlannette,

I hope you don't mind a review of the laws that these two police officers violated.

Duran v. Douglas: Not legal to stop or detain without RAS or PC. LEO needs a warrant without RAS or PC.

Terry v. Ohio: Detention OK if RAS exists. Cuffs and search for weapons on perp's body OK as long as the search is not beyond a search for weapons.

Hibel v. Sixth Judicial District: Because Nevada has a "stop and ID" statute, Nevada LEO can demand ID if RAS exists. No RAS=No ID!

Michigan v. Chesternut: You are detained if you feel you could not leave.

St. John v. Officer McColley: Officer McColley, et allia, paid St. John $21,000 for an illegal detention. McColley, et allia, paid St. John with personal funds as Judge Black removed Qualified Immunity from the cops involved because they "violated clearly established" enumerated case law.

42 USC section 1983 is the federal code that creates the legal vehicle for you to sue Officers 14161 and 13587 for the law breaking that they performed on you.

Sue their asses off! They deserve to pay at least a $100,000 punitive judgement for violating your 4A rights (IMHO).

markm (IANL)

Zed Snardbody · Mar 9, 2011

Those numbers are to long.

Anytime I've dealt with a Metro officer the P# is 4 digits. Even with the big hire on over the last 4 years I'm pretty sure it's still only 4, I could be wrong though.

I think that they may have given you actual badge numbers. Its a sort of backhanded way of complying with a request as badge numbers for Metro are for inventory control and aren't necessarily tied to a name without really digging into the admin paperwork.

Always be precise, ask for the P Number.

ixtow · Mar 9, 2011

It would seem that word has spread that OCers know their rights and you shouldn't push your luck with them.

But everyone else is still fair game.

Sick.

timf343 · Mar 9, 2011

ixtow-

I had the exact same thought. A lone guy, by himself, NOT oc'ing was harassed for filming. A group of us, OC'ing, filming and walking around the strip was left alone, and even treated well by Metro, a story I hope Myles posts soon, as I am anxious for the details too!

Tim

MPlannette · Mar 9, 2011

Sorry its taken me so long to respond. The encounter was across the street from the Bellagio. We noticed a few Metro Officers standing by a police car and decided to take a couple pictures. They joked about posing for the camera and offered to take a picture of me next to the car. The officer that took the picture said he appreciates armed citizens and we told him that we appreciate armed officers. He mentioned that they had seen OCers a few minutes before.

Regarding my detention, when the officer said that I was carrying an illegal concealed weapon (referring to my knife) and I mentioned that it was legal. He seemed fixated on the "concealed nature" of it and I said that I could carry it concealed and that open carry is legal too. That's when he changed his story to me failing to give my name, rather than taking photos or failing to show ID. He seemed set back when I mentioned OC, so I think you guys are right when you say that OCers are off limits, but everyone else is fair game. I have never had my rights so blatantly violated.

Is there anything besides filing a complaint that I can do?

Here's some photos from that night

http://www.flickr.com/photos/milesplannette/5513010318/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/milesplannette/5512413849/in/photostream/

Vegassteve · Mar 9, 2011

Sorry I am a bit confused. Were there 2 different encounters?

MPlannette · Mar 9, 2011

I was only detained and cuffed once, when I was taking photos by myself. A group of us went down to the strip the following day and on our way back to our cars, part of the group walked by a group of metro officers. It turned out to be a good interaction, and one of the officers took my picture next to the patrol car and a couple officers.

Sorry if I was confusing in my last post.

Vegassteve · Mar 9, 2011

Got it thanks. Please let us know if we can do anything to help your cause out. And great pics by the way. I took a look at the cam you use. Very nice rig.

Lostlittlerobot · Mar 9, 2011

MarkBofRAdvocate said:
Hello MPlannette,

Hibel v. Sixth Judicial District: Because Nevada has a "stop and ID" statute, Nevada LEO can demand ID if RAS exists. No RAS=No ID!

Someone let me know about this. I thought the outcome to this was that in nevada there is no stop and show id...that we need only identify ourselves by first and last name. This was the case that decided that.

The quote shows the opposite of what I thought occured. Or did the poster mean ID as simply stateing name, and not necessarily having to SHOW an id?

timf343 · Mar 9, 2011

Correct. The Hiibel case reinforced the stop and identify statute - it is definitely a crime to refuse to identify yourself if police are detaining you with lawful authority. Hiibel had refused to even provide his name, let alone show ID.

The NV Supreme Court decision explains this means you must STATE your name. You don't even have to spell it. You just have to say it. The court's decision goes on to say you cannot be compelled to answer any other question, which includes your date of birth, social security number, address, anything. You are merely required to say your name and then feel free to shut up and not say another word.

But as Myles found out, the law is sometimes irrelevant when dealing with poorly trained police officers. On the side of the road, the law is whatever they tell you it is. And had he not provided his date of birth, it's very likely he'd have been placed in the back of the cruiser as punishment.

ixtow · Mar 9, 2011

Lostlittlerobot said:
Someone let me know about this. I thought the outcome to this was that in nevada there is no stop and show id...that we need only identify ourselves by first and last name. This was the case that decided that.

The quote shows the opposite of what I thought occured. Or did the poster mean ID as simply stateing name, and not necessarily having to SHOW an id?

Bingo.

You have to give your name if RAS/PC exists for a Terry vs Ohio type of stop. That is all. But how are you to know if RAS/PC exists? You don't, hence eliminating the Right to remain Silent.

Secondly, most departments keep a bulletin board of descriptions of suspects. They keep it forever. this way, they have anything to match you with a description of; generating RAS to stop anyone, anytime, anywhere. You WILL match the description of someone on their list, even if it was reported 50 years ago.

Evil Tyler Durden · Apr 23, 2011

MPlannette said:
So I went down to the Strip tonight to try to get some candid photos of people and ended up in cuffs. I started off photographing in some of the casinos and walkways and ended up in front of the Bellagio at about 9:45pm, which happened to be when the water show was starting. I was in the process of taking some shots of people silhouetted against the light from the water show when I overheard two metro officers, one male, one female, ask two middle-aged black men if they were smoking any "weed". This immediately pulled my attention towards the situation. The men answered no and stated that they were locals who come to the Strip frequently. The male metro officer told them that they would need to see their IDs and the men complied. My attention peaked when the male officer told the men, that for officer safety, they would need to search their pockets. They proceeded to empty their belongings onto the sidewalk in front of the Bellagio. This is about the time I started photographing them.

After a few seconds the male officer shined his light at me and approached me until he was about 3 inches from my face. He told me that I could not photograph the two men because it violated their privacy. I replied that, since we were on public property, I could photograph the officers and the two men. He stated that "it was in my best interest to turn around and leave." I told him that I was within my rights to photograph and I would not leave. He demanded photo ID and I refused, he told me that "it was in my best interest to show him ID" and that it was state law that I must show ID when asked by a police officer. When I refused, he told me to turn around and spread my legs. He then proceeded cuff me and pat me down, I was asking "why am I being detained during this", but he didn't bother to answer. When he found the small knife I was carrying he said, "you're being detained for illegally carrying a concealed weapon." I told him there are no laws that prohibit me from carrying a knife and he said they would check to see if it was a legal knife.

He asked for my name, which I gave him, then my date of birth, which I refused to give. He threatened to arrest me if I didn't give it to him, so I chickened out and gave it to him. He called in my info, which took about 5 or 6 minutes. He came back over and took the cuffs off. As soon as the cuffs were off I went to get a pen out of my camera bag and ask for their badge numbers. The male officer told me his before I could write it down.

This is the kicker, they decided that it was a good time to walk about 15 feet away and set my knife down on the public sidewalk. I contested this, but they said it was for "officer safety" and was protocol for them. I asked for the badge number again and the male officer said, "you might want to go get your knife before that kid does." I went to pick up my knife and looked back to see both officers walking away.

I had enough sense to switch my camera to video mode and walk after the officers, which was the direction my car was parked too, and ask for both badge numbers. The male officer refused at first stating that "he had given it to me already", but after I contested, gave it to me.

I apologize for the novel of a post, but this was the last thing I expected to be detained for. That is also the reason I didn't have my recorder on me. I also wish I had been quick enough to switch my camera to video mode during the detainment, although the officer seemed to check it when he was patting me down and would have probably turned it off if it was on. My camera bag was also searched after they discovered the knife.

Badge Numbers

Male Officer-14161

Female Officer-13587

Goto http://www.ratemycop.com and file a report, this will go on their permanent record and follow them anywhere they go. If they continue to act the way they did and get more reports about the same actions, they can and will lose their job.

paintsnow · Apr 28, 2011

Zed Snardbody said:
Those numbers are to long.

Anytime I've dealt with a Metro officer the P# is 4 digits. Even with the big hire on over the last 4 years I'm pretty sure it's still only 4, I could be wrong though.

I think that they may have given you actual badge numbers. Its a sort of backhanded way of complying with a request as badge numbers for Metro are for inventory control and aren't necessarily tied to a name without really digging into the admin paperwork.

Always be precise, ask for the P Number.

The noobies have "zip codes" 5 digit numbers, and i think some of the newest officers have a 6 digit.

Detained By Metro On The Strip

timf343

Campaign Veteran

DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member

Sabotage70

Regular Member

jdholmes

Regular Member

markm

New member

Zed Snardbody

Regular Member

ixtow

Founder's Club Member

timf343

Campaign Veteran

MPlannette

Regular Member

Vegassteve

Regular Member

MPlannette

Regular Member

Vegassteve

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Lostlittlerobot

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timf343

Campaign Veteran

ixtow

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Evil Tyler Durden

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paintsnow

Regular Member