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LEOs = Super Human? think not!

protect our rights

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
290
Location
Fort Wayne, Indiana
WOW, some LEOs are just ignorant. It is funny to hear them bicker over OCing. They seem to think they are the only ones that are qualified to carry. Chek out this forum, it has about 20 LEO basically shunning another LEO for the mer mention of OCing. They completely made it so he woul never open carry. I wanted to join just to "inform" them how misguided they were!

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?133810-Open-carry
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Originally Posted by IMPDNE
Children, it isn't nice to argue...especially over the internets. You guys need to kiss and make up, or slug it out. Whatever you decide to do, do it in your home state, we have enough drama from Indiana locals that we don't need outsiders causing more.

Monty Ealerman
Well given that I was born in Indiana I don't think of myself as an "outsider" to that state even though I live in Chicago now.

After RKT on this board (in response to a poll) said I was the person he'd most like to punch out, I invited him to come to Chicago and give it a try, and he later in good humor lied and said he'd already done so and won.

I wasn't terribly serious about it, and I suppose he wasn't either, but if we could find a venue that didn't require too much travel of either of us, I'd be willing to give it a proper go, and I think he probably would too.

And these are the guys that want the guns and don't want us to judge them. :cry:
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
WOW, some LEOs are just ignorant. It is funny to hear them bicker over OCing. They seem to think they are the only ones that are qualified to carry. Chek out this forum, it has about 20 LEO basically shunning another LEO for the mer mention of OCing. They completely made it so he woul never open carry. I wanted to join just to "inform" them how misguided they were!

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?133810-Open-carry

They are not that much different than we are. Some make irrational generalizations about OCers, and some make thoughtful posts.

Some here make irrational generalizations about LEOs, and some make thoughtful posts.

One posted that thinking like a criminal would help us understand why OC is ill-advised. He pointed out that criminals want to get the money, not get shot, and get away. Once an OCer was spotted, that carrier would become the first target.

Apparently, he never heard the story of the OCers deterring a robbery in a Kennesaw Waffle House. You see, the not getting shot is priority one for criminals. They'd just as soon leave and then either go someplace else or come back later. Their self-interest, to the expense of all else, prompts them to act in a cowardly manner unless they have the unquestionable upper hand. Knowing that another is armed raises the question of advantage, and an act of cowardice will usually result.

That's not to say that a BG will never target an OCer. However, the lack of reports to date would indicate that BGs will almost never take the OCer out and that the LEO who made that post is not capable of truly thinking like the criminal.
 
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protect our rights

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
290
Location
Fort Wayne, Indiana
Yeah, not ALL LEOs think the way that the ones speaking on that forum do. I guess my topic was a bit broad. There are deff. A LOT of misguided LEOs unfortunately. You can just tell by the way they are speaking that they seem to think they are the top of the food chain. They are public (us) "servants"
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Yeah, not ALL LEOs think the way that the ones speaking on that forum do. I guess my topic was a bit broad. There are deff. A LOT of misguided LEOs unfortunately. You can just tell by the way they are speaking that they seem to think they are the top of the food chain. They are public (us) "servants"

Yeah. I prefer the view that the LEOs are not superior to the rest of us. Nor are we superior to them. LEOs are simply folk who have been tasked with specific responsibilities which, under very limited and explicitly defined circumstances, allow them to give lawful orders to others. Likewise, we generally get to order them to bugger off in all other circumstances. If either of us fails to comply, legal consequences could ensue.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I wonder if LEOs are pressured to hassle OCers cuz da Chief don't like the little folks having guns on their hips? My only point of reference is the almost unanimous and almost verbatim lingo Chiefs/Sheriff's associations use when they "disagree" with state legislatures relaxing gun restrictions and the move towards constitutional carry for the great unwashed masses.

Don't forget that most have now simply become the political force or arm of certain governments and politicians. And since the 2a was written as an explicit threat of violence against tyranny.....it is no wonder they don't like common folk carrying guns.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
"Blade Runner": Decker's boss to him about coming back as a cop. "You're either one of us or one of the little people." Sums up the vast majority of cop think, imo--even the good ones are susceptible to the collective mind . If citizens carry a firearm, they're not so little anymore. That thought frightens the mind set, supra.
 

protect our rights

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
290
Location
Fort Wayne, Indiana
"Blade Runner": Decker's boss to him about coming back as a cop. "You're either one of us or one of the little people." Sums up the vast majority of cop think, imo--even the good ones are susceptible to the collective mind . If citizens carry a firearm, they're not so little anymore. That thought frightens the mind set, supra.


+1 Makes them a little less special. Kinda hard to pick on someone who is your equal, huh?
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Love post #12 there:
...
There was an interesting story out of Virginia a couple of months ago, where one of our SASS shooters was in a 7-11 after a match getting coffee, when an armed suspect tried to hold up the store. After the gunman shot the clerk (unprovoked), the heeled cowboy pulled his 7 1/2 inch black powder .44 and killed the suspect in a hail of gunfire and black powder smoke. Probably a fluke, but score one for the good guy.

Seems the cops just cannot get their facts straight. That's ^ the Golden Market hold-up in Richmond, Va. The good guy is not a SASS shooter, but he does OC his BP .44 on a daily basis.

The best thing, as far as I'm concerned, is that the attitude of a whole lot of cops has changed in the 2+ years since that thread was started. Either it is that they are actually willing to accept the inevitable or they are just that much more leery of being sued - it does not matter that much to me what their motivation is.

stay safe.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
They are not that much different than we are. Some make irrational generalizations about OCers, and some make thoughtful posts.

Some here make irrational generalizations about LEOs, and some make thoughtful posts.

One posted that thinking like a criminal would help us understand why OC is ill-advised. He pointed out that criminals want to get the money, not get shot, and get away. Once an OCer was spotted, that carrier would become the first target.

Apparently, he never heard the story of the OCers deterring a robbery in a Kennesaw Waffle House. You see, the not getting shot is priority one for criminals. They'd just as soon leave and then either go someplace else or come back later. Their self-interest, to the expense of all else, prompts them to act in a cowardly manner unless they have the unquestionable upper hand. Knowing that another is armed raises the question of advantage, and an act of cowardice will usually result.

That's not to say that a BG will never target an OCer. However, the lack of reports to date would indicate that BGs will almost never take the OCer out and that the LEO who made that post is not capable of truly thinking like the criminal.

Yup.

Most of these cops are have become so enmeshed in their fantasy world of extreme danger on every corner that they view any potential BG as a hero of arch-villianry.

In reality, most bad guys are not dedicated, psychopathic against-all-odds random hitmen; they are lazy, cowardly people lacking in intelligence.

One of those cops suggested that we assume criminals think like us.

Not so. I have to take myself outside my own experience to think as a lazy, cowardly fool.

And I think that the average criminal is more likely to be deterred by OC than I would be, were I a criminal.
 
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Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
"Gotta love people who own guns, who are craving a confrontation with the police."


I actually read some of the posts over there. That one caught my eye. Here's one he'd like, too.


"We must take the guns from the people to make the streets safe for the SS."

A. Hitler

And this dick has a badge? One guy did have a good one: "Stallinois." Love that!
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
They are not that much different than we are. Some make irrational generalizations about OCers, and some make thoughtful posts.

Some here make irrational generalizations about LEOs, and some make thoughtful posts.

One posted that thinking like a criminal would help us understand why OC is ill-advised. He pointed out that criminals want to get the money, not get shot, and get away. Once an OCer was spotted, that carrier would become the first target.

Apparently, he never heard the story of the OCers deterring a robbery in a Kennesaw Waffle House. You see, the not getting shot is priority one for criminals. They'd just as soon leave and then either go someplace else or come back later. Their self-interest, to the expense of all else, prompts them to act in a cowardly manner unless they have the unquestionable upper hand. Knowing that another is armed raises the question of advantage, and an act of cowardice will usually result.

That's not to say that a BG will never target an OCer. However, the lack of reports to date would indicate that BGs will almost never take the OCer out and that the LEO who made that post is not capable of truly thinking like the criminal.

Here's the thing: if you've been in combat, you understands SA. If you've been in a doughnut shop after running a speedtrap, it's not quite the same thing. The opinion of one step from Mall Ninja cops on OC is a matter of complete indifference to me. Where are the facts? When was an OCer taken out by a BG? I'd like to see one example. Until then, although I generally CC as I've said many times, OC is a viable way to deter crime until someone with credibility shows me otherwise.
 

protect our rights

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
290
Location
Fort Wayne, Indiana
Here's the thing: if you've been in combat, you understands SA. If you've been in a doughnut shop after running a speedtrap, it's not quite the same thing. The opinion of one step from Mall Ninja cops on OC is a matter of complete indifference to me. Where are the facts? When was an OCer taken out by a BG? I'd like to see one example. Until then, although I generally CC as I've said many times, OC is a viable way to deter crime until someone with credibility shows me otherwise.

I agree. Even if someone showed you or me or anybody for that matter proof that this happened. I still wouldn't change my mind on the subject. They would have to show a general trend, where that was an actual fact that OCers were becoming targets. Then and only then, would I think about not OCing in certain situations.
 
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SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
I agree. Even if someone showed you or me or anybody for that matter proof that this happened. I still wouldn't change my mind on the subject. They would have to show a general trend, where that was an actual fact that OCers were becoming targets. Then and only then, would I think about not OCing in certain situations.

Nice dance steps there POR, since you already know of it happening and commented on it before making this post.:)

Eye95, was also aware of it before he made his "lack of reports to date" comment. It is one of the points I was trying to make. Since you already know of a case, acting as if you are unaware undermines your creditability and weakens any points you may make after. This is why I believe we have to be honest, that it has happened, but that is very rare.
 

protect our rights

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
290
Location
Fort Wayne, Indiana
Nice dance steps there POR, since you already know of it happening and commented on it before making this post.:)

Please post a link to a thread in which there is proof of a BG targeting a GG for his gun, or stole the gun from a legal carrier and used it against him. Let-alone me comment on such a thread. I'm sure this MAY have happened in the history of Legal carry. until I have seen evidence I'm not going to say it has happened for SURE.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
It doesn't matter whether it "has" happened. What matters is whether it's likely. Lots of things have happened once or a few times, but are still ultra-rare.

And anyway, there are threads posted here where bad guys take an OCer's gun all the time.

In California, they call it an (e) check.
 

protect our rights

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
290
Location
Fort Wayne, Indiana
It doesn't matter whether it "has" happened. What matters is whether it's likely. Lots of things have happened once or a few times, but are still ultra-rare.

And anyway, there are threads posted here where bad guys take an OCer's gun all the time.

In California, they call it an (e) check.


Yeah I have heard of several instances where BGs have taken legal carriers gun. That wasn't in question, it was whether a BG has used the GGs gun against him. Like I said "I'm sure it has probably happened", like you said "very rare in any case."
 
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ABNinfantryman

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
204
Location
Columbus, Georgia, United States
Think my next OC purchase is going to be a drop leg holster, to help show the tactical advantage of having the weapon in the open. Like not having to fool around with a shirt or pocket or jacket et al. I'd also point out that the military doesn't hide their weapons while in combat where people really do want to kill you at every corner, we display those beasts as much as possible to deter the BGs.
 
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