Triangle Town Center Mall Posted

Maverick9110e · Mar 6, 2011

While having been to this mall several dozen times in the past and looking for any signage i did not see any. Also if you enter through certain entrances it is not posted.

So today walking through the store with the SO, we wandered into American Eagle and as i am in there a security guard walks up to me and asks me to step outside the store with him, i comply. He informs me that they do not allow anyone to carry firearms in the mall. I ask if it is Written anywhere to this effect and he informs me that it is posted on the entrance but it is very small and hard to see. He then tells me that i can lock it up in my car and return. Mind you he was being very polite (his partner was silent) I said that i did not see any such signage but i will be leaving as soon as i grab my SO. So i go back in the store, grab her and inform her and we leave the store with the Guards standing outside, i ask them if there is someone i can speak to about this. They gave me the name of the head of security a BenTolly and his number.(general security number) 919-792-2020. He also mentioned he doesn't agree with the policy and that he himself has a CC permit and wishes he could carry as well. All in all the security guard did a very nice polite job. His name was Ben Allen.

So, i leave and notice a general Rules sign and it happens to say "Alcoholic beverages and the carrying of firearms is prohibited"

So needless to say i will be contacting the mall offices, and security although Security can't really do much other then enforce the policies.

Here is their corporate office info:

Corporate Office
CBL & Associates Properties, Inc.
CBL Center, Suite 500
2030 Hamilton Place Boulevard
Chattanooga, TN 37421-6000
423.855.0001
800.333.7310
info@cblproperties.com

And the mall info:

Triangle Town Center
5959 Triangle Town Boulevard,
Raleigh, North Carolina 27616

Main Phone Number: 919.792.2222 x250

Any help in writing them and trying to get this changed would be appreciated!

Northerner · Mar 6, 2011

Maverick9110e said:
While having been to this mall several dozen times in the past and looking for any signage i did not see any. Also if you enter through certain entrances it is not posted.

So today walking through the store with the SO, we wandered into American Eagle and as i am in there a security guard walks up to me and asks me to step outside the store with him, i comply. He informs me that they do not allow anyone to carry firearms in the mall. I ask if it is Written anywhere to this effect and he informs me that it is posted on the entrance but it is very small and hard to see. He then tells me that i can lock it up in my car and return. Mind you he was being very polite (his partner was silent) I said that i did not see any such signage but i will be leaving as soon as i grab my SO. So i go back in the store, grab her and inform her and we leave the store with the Guards standing outside, i ask them if there is someone i can speak to about this. They gave me the name of the head of security a BenTolly and his number.(general security number) 919-792-2020. He also mentioned he doesn't agree with the policy and that he himself has a CC permit and wishes he could carry as well. All in all the security guard did a very nice polite job. His name was Ben Allen.

So, i leave and notice a general Rules sign and it happens to say "Alcoholic beverages and the carrying of firearms is prohibited"

So needless to say i will be contacting the mall offices, and security although Security can't really do much other then enforce the policies.

Here is their corporate office info:

Corporate Office
CBL & Associates Properties, Inc.
CBL Center, Suite 500
2030 Hamilton Place Boulevard
Chattanooga, TN 37421-6000
423.855.0001
800.333.7310
info@cblproperties.com

And the mall info:

Triangle Town Center
5959 Triangle Town Boulevard,
Raleigh, North Carolina 27616

Main Phone Number: 919.792.2222 x250

Any help in writing them and trying to get this changed would be appreciated!

I wonder if the gun busted signage only applies on the TTC grounds, but can only be enforced by store management when inside a store. I CC there quite a bit. I'll send an inquiry too. I know, I know CC vs OC, but isn't that "right" we are all hoping for for; "To freely choose?"

rotorhead · Mar 7, 2011

It should be no surprise to anyone that most malls ban the carrying of weapons of any type on their property. I'd be hard pressed to find any of them that would allow it.

Usually, malls ban carrying anywhere on their properties, to include parking lots, etc. This also extends to the individual stores that are on mall property, regardless of whether or not the individual stores normally allow for carrying in their stores which are not on mall property elsewhere.

If you find a mall that allows for carrying of personal weapons, let me know. I wouldn't mind seeing the inside of a mall one day lol, not that it's the most pleasurable experience in the world

JDriver1.8t · Mar 7, 2011

The signs don't meet legal requirements, so all they can do is ask you to leave.

I've CCed there on many occasions. I know that if I OC I will be asked to leave.

Maverick9110e · Mar 7, 2011

Got my response:

"I have received your email concerning Triangle Town Center's Code of
Conduct policy prohibiting the carrying or displaying of weapons of any
kind except those carried by certified law enforcement officers in the
performance of their duties. I appreciate you bringing your concerns to
our attention.

While it does welcome the public on to the property, Triangle Town Center
is private property and its owners are afforded the same rights and
privileges as any other private property owner. In prohibiting weapons on
property, except by certified law enforcement officers, Triangle Town
Center's intent is not to limit anyone's rights. Rather, its owners are
exercising their rights as a private property owner to operate their
business in manner it feels best suits its invited guests and customers.

Triangle Town Center owners, in accordance with North Carolina State
Statute 14-415.11(c), as a "person in legal possession or control of the
premises", posts its desire, through its Code of Conduct Policy, to prevent
weapons of any kind, including permitted concealed handguns, at all major
entrances. Signs are located at each road entrance informing guests of the
Code of Conduct Policy and directing them to its placement in the center.
In addition, a copy of the policy is posted on the center's website at
www.triangletowncenter.com.

Thank you again for bringing your concerns to our attention. We sincerely
hope our policy does not prevent you from shopping at our centers in the
future, but understand and respect any decision not to.

Jack D. Love, CSM
CBL & Associates Management, Inc.
Triangle Town Center
General Manager

5959 Triangle Town Blvd. Suite #CU-2072
Raleigh, NC 27616
919-792-2020 ext. 228
919-792-2220 fax
jack_love@cblproperties.com"

So i'll defintley be writing a response to this, seems like he's saying its our property and thats the way we want it. Time to push a little harder with some facts i think...

Maverick9110e · Mar 7, 2011

here's my response:

Mr. Love,
First let me say thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my concern, it is greatly appreciated. While i understand what you are saying about private property, you are correct that you have the authority to make such a policy. However, this policy does infringe upon my constitutional rights even though you have the authority to do so. It is not appreciated. I realize that you are exercising your judgement in a manner that you feel will best suit your guests and customers. With that in mind you are actually doing them a dis-service and putting their safety in jeopardy with this policy. By only allowing certified law enforcement officers you are putting up a sign that says everyone on this property is unarmed and can easily be victimized.
Secondly this policy says that only police officers are trusted with ensuring my safety as well as yours. Studies have shown that police officers are no better trained then most when it comes to shooting discipline as well as marksmanship. So by only allowing officers to carry on the grounds of training and ability is a moot point.
Third i would like to re-iterate my point that this policy will have ZERO effect on stopping any type of firearm related criminal activity. I urge you to look around the nation at incidents where many lives could have been saved if people were able to legally protect themselves as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. Several other stores and business follow whatever the state laws are regarding to carrying of firearms, i do not see why your establishment can not do the same.
Unfortunately until this policy is changed as i have stated before i will not be patronizing any business on your property and will go to great lengths to ensure that others do not as well. I URGE you to reconsider your policy, myself and others safety depends upon it as all you are doing is stopping people from protecting themselves.

Sincerely,
ME

rotorhead · Mar 7, 2011

JDriver1.8t said:
The signs don't meet legal requirements, so all they can do is ask you to leave.

I've CCed there on many occasions. I know that if I OC I will be asked to leave.

Which part of the legal requirements don't they meet? I've never seen those particular signs because I've never been to that mall. NC is pretty lax concerning requirements for signage so I was wondering what specifically are the signs lacking in terms of not meeting legal requirements.

Thanks!

Maverick9110e · Mar 7, 2011

rotorhead said:
Which part of the legal requirements don't they meet? I've never seen those particular signs because I've never been to that mall. NC is pretty lax concerning requirements for signage so I was wondering what specifically are the signs lacking in terms of not meeting legal requirements.

Thanks!

Yea i'm pretty sure it just has to be posted. There are no requirements for size, shape or style. I think the only way they could get into the grey area is that is hast to be posted Conspicously.

JDriver1.8t · Mar 7, 2011

It has to be posted conspicuously. Once you are inside, this would not be conspicuous. Included in a wall of words, this would not be conspicuous. It has to be posted at every customer entrance/exit. There are numerous entrances that are not posted, nor have their wall or words nearby (inside).

It does not meet those requirements for being legally posted, so the only thing they can do is ask you to leave.
I specifically use the non-posted entrances for this reason.

*Edit*
It has been probably 8-9 months since I have been there, and signs could possibly have been changed.

billv · Mar 7, 2011

Need a law like out 30.06 law in Texas.

In Texas we have the 30.06 signs. We don't have open carry (yet) so it applies to Concealed carry only. NC should have this. But then they can also post any old sign too to prohibit carry. This is the law:

Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) further states that a sign must meet the following requirements:

1. includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
2. appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
3. is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Paragraph (A) reads and is what the sign has to say, exactly:

"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."

I wonder if some jokers managed to arrange the numbering so it worked out to be 30.06.

rotorhead · Mar 7, 2011

JDriver1.8t said:
It has to be posted conspicuously. Once you are inside, this would not be conspicuous. Included in a wall of words, this would not be conspicuous. It has to be posted at every customer entrance/exit. There are numerous entrances that are not posted, nor have their wall or words nearby (inside).

It does not meet those requirements for being legally posted, so the only thing they can do is ask you to leave.
I specifically use the non-posted entrances for this reason.

Aighty, thanks for the info.

Maverick9110e · Mar 7, 2011

Got the GF to write a pretty good email as well:

Dear Mr. Jack D. Love,

I am writing regarding the “No Firearms” policy at Triangle Town Center mall. I am very troubled by this policy. North Carolina state law states that I am legally allowed to open carry a firearm. While I do understand Triangle Town Center is considered private property. It is also a public shopping center where anyone can come and go as they please. While we all hope that there will never be an instance where a firearm will be needed to protect the lives of both myself and the people around me, we cannot ignore the possibility. There have been many instances at various shopping centers of armed robberies and assaults happening. As a woman I feel I am particularly vulnerable, both inside the mall and outside in the parking lot when I’m walking back to my car. I cannot even count the number of assaults, robberies, and kidnappings that have occurred in a mall parking lot. Several friends of mine including myself have seen this firsthand and we were the lucky few who were able to get away. Not everyone is this fortunate. Therefore, I choose to exercise my right to carry a firearm to defend myself because my life depends on it.

Furthermore, a criminal is someone who has no problem violating policy or breaking the law. They are not going to read the sign on the doorway and see that it says “No Firearms” and turn around to choose another place to rob because it’s against the rules to have a gun here. They are going to walk right in the door with the full intention of doing what they want no matter how many innocent lives are lost. I noticed your security guards also do not carry a firearm. They are just as helpless as the rest of us. In the time it would take for local police to arrive, countless victims lives could already be lost. If there is a law abiding citizen such as myself there carrying a firearm and is able to scare him away or stop him by whatever means necessary, there is no telling how many lives would be saved.

I urge you to consider the safety of your customers when making policies that could cost us our lives.

Sincerely a concerned citizen,

cricketdad · Mar 7, 2011

Maverick9110e said:
Got the GF to write a pretty good email as well:

Sounds like you might have a keeper there

Maverick9110e · Mar 7, 2011

cricketdad said:
Sounds like you might have a keeper there

lol, yea she's really gotten on board with the whole firearm thing in general over the last few years.

mekender · Mar 8, 2011

This is one of the many reasons I just dont go to malls in the first place. There is nothing in a mall that I cant get cheaper elsewhere.

Smith45acp · Mar 8, 2011

Crabtree Valley Mall also has a no weapons policy, although it is apparently inconsistently posted even at main entrances.

Found this one out the hard way

mattwestm · Mar 8, 2011

I've never seen any postings at Triangle. Probably very small or not posted at every entrance. When I go to Crabtree, I park near Panera Bread under the parking deck on the ground level. There isn't any sign on that set of doors. I OC'd once in Crabtree and didn't have any problems. I also never saw a mall cop...

The mall in Greenville isn't posted, but I'm sure carrying isn't allowed. The mall here sucks, so I don't ever go there to try OC.

Maverick9110e · Mar 8, 2011

i agree theres nothing i can't get elsewhere (mostly online) but i do like the convince of picking it up then rather then ordering and paying for shipping.

I never got a response to my 2nd email, i'd bet he's avoiding it. GF got the same BS response. Anyone else having any luck with emails? I'd realllly love to flood them with emails about this to see if we can drum up some kind of change.

Smith45acp · Mar 8, 2011

mattwestm said:
I OC'd once in Crabtree and didn't have any problems. I also never saw a mall cop...

You are lucky to have left unscathed!

rotorhead · Mar 9, 2011

Yah, malls aren't exactly the best place to OC.

Besides, he may have thought he was unmolested, but you can be sure the Mall Ninja's had him in their sights the whole time.

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