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St. Josephs finest!

REALteach4u

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
428
Location
Spfld, Mo.
Drop what charge? He was released without charges made, hence false arrest.

You need to go to a case prep class, talk to folks fresh from an academy, or talk to a good prosecutor. LEOs don't have to charge him right now, they can drag their feet and wait to charge him later. I would hope you've heard of a thing called the statute of limitations.

Fact is, when a LEO tells you to leave and you refuse you can be arrested. They can then hook you up for trespass, obstruction, he catch-all of disorderly conduct, or even interfering with an arrest (not the same as obstruction either). Just because you're arrested for a crime and not formally charged does not mean it's a false arrest.

Sadly, it does mean that the arrest is on your record and now it will cost YOU the money to get an arrest without charges expunged from your record. So no matter what, they've got you in a pinch.

Here's the RSMO on the interfering with an arrest.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5750000150.HTM

In all honesty, that one looks to be the most applicable that I've seen thus far.



Sorry cash, I didn't see your post until I had this one up. So what's your thought on the combined issue of the crime for interfering occurring and it possibly being stretched into the street gang activities statute? It's a really large stretch in my opinion, but it appears at face value that it technically could be possible. Camera operator's best interest should have been in following the instructions of the LEO for his own good, especially after being told to leave the area.
 
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cash50

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
349
Location
St. Louis
I think any time something has to be "stretched" to fit a crime, I really wonder what reason(s) there is for this. Obviously, many cops don't like being filmed. IMO, if you can't handle being filmed well, then how can you, as a cop, handle other, more "rigorous" duties well?

From the video, which I only watched once, the cops told the people to go across the street and get on the sidewalk. It looked like the camera operator complied, and continued filming.

Also, after moving a reasonable distance away from the people fighting, I'm not sure what else the LEO's wanted the cameraman to do, or why.
 

lancers

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
231
Location
St. Louis, Missouri, USA
You need to go to a case prep class, talk to folks fresh from an academy, or talk to a good prosecutor. LEOs don't have to charge him right now, they can drag their feet and wait to charge him later. I would hope you've heard of a thing called the statute of limitations.

Fact is, when a LEO tells you to leave and you refuse you can be arrested. They can then hook you up for trespass, obstruction, he catch-all of disorderly conduct, or even interfering with an arrest (not the same as obstruction either). Just because you're arrested for a crime and not formally charged does not mean it's a false arrest.

Sadly, it does mean that the arrest is on your record and now it will cost YOU the money to get an arrest without charges expunged from your record. So no matter what, they've got you in a pinch.

Here's the RSMO on the interfering with an arrest.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5750000150.HTM

In all honesty, that one looks to be the most applicable that I've seen thus far.



Sorry cash, I didn't see your post until I had this one up. So what's your thought on the combined issue of the crime for interfering occurring and it possibly being stretched into the street gang activities statute? It's a really large stretch in my opinion, but it appears at face value that it technically could be possible. Camera operator's best interest should have been in following the instructions of the LEO for his own good, especially after being told to leave the area.

How does 575.150 apply?
"(1) Resists the arrest, stop or detention of such person by using or threatening the use of violence or physical force or by fleeing from such officer; or

(2) Interferes with the arrest, stop or detention of another person by using or threatening the use of violence, physical force or physical interference."

I never saw any threat or physical interference like in the below case.

From the federal 8th district court of appeals Copeland v. Locke, 613 F.3d 875:
"A review of the video taken from Chief Locke's police cruiser illustrates that Steibel's repeated requests for Chief Locke to move his vehicle distracted Chief Locke while conducting the traffic stop. Moreover, the video depicts an agitated Steibel who points at Chief Locke, points down the road, and by Steibel's own admission, tells Chief Locke to "move the f***ing car." However, even at the height of his agitation, Steibel was separated from Chief Locke by the length and width of the stopped vehicle. And, while Steibel did approach the traffic stop, the video shows Steibel approaching in a non-aggressive manner. Accordingly, when viewed in a light most favorable to Steibel, at most, Steibel distracted, cursed at, and pointed at Chief Locke.
Steibel's conduct, viewed in this light, does not violate Missouri Statute section 575.150 which requires "(1) the defendant, having knowledge that a law enforcement officer is making an arrest or a stop of a person or vehicle, (2) resists or interferes with the arrest by threatening to use violence or physical force or by fleeing from the officer, . . . and (3) defendant did so with the purpose of preventing the officer from completing the arrest." State v. Clark, 263 S.W.3d 666, 673 (Mo. App. 2008), overruled in part on other grounds, State v. Daws, 311 S.W.3d 806 (Mo. 2010). Here, Steibel knew that Chief Locke was making a traffic stop, but the record, viewed in a light most favorable to Steibel, indicates that Steibel did not threaten the use of violence or physical force nor did he "flee" from the officer under any reasonable definition of the word as he backed away from the scene upon being engaged and pursued by Chief Locke. Moreover, according to the record, Steibel had no intention of preventing the officer from completing the stop. Thus, under the facts viewed in a light most favorable to Steibel, no reasonable officer could have believed that Steibel had violated section 575.150.

The freedom of individuals verbally to oppose or challenge police action without thereby risking arrest is one of the principal characteristics by which we distinguish a free nation from a police state.. If, as Steibel avers, Chief Locke arrested Steibel solely for distracting him from the stop through the use of his protected expression, then the arrest was unlawful even if it arguably interfered with police activity.

Notably, Chief Locke asserts that he advised Steibel to step back. Steibel denies this. Accordingly, viewing the record in a light most favorable to Steibel, Chief Locke merely reacted to Steibel's use of loud, profane language coupled with Steibel's expressive gestures in directing the Chief to move his cruiser away from Steibel's business. No reasonable police officer could believe that he had actual probable cause to arrest a citizen for such protected activity. Accordingly, on this summary judgment record, Steibel has presented sufficient evidence to show that Chief Locke arrested him without actual probable cause."



So here when this guy didn't even backup, (while just being on the other side of a car), the cop still did not have probable cause.

This St. Joesph's guy is lucky that the video recording was still available when he got his phone/camera back.
 
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chakragod

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
100
Location
St. Joseph, MO
Most LEO think they are above the law PERIOD,as long as they can get away with this kind of conduct,nothing will change.I,m reminded of a St. Joseph officer that fatally shot another officer in the back.Now.........if any one of us would have accidentaly shot the same officer in the back with the same outcome, where do you think we would be this very second?? I'm sure there would at least been a Manslaughter charge against us at the very least. Its a shame the officer got shot,but my point is,even though it was an accident, the other officer should have been charged, the law is supposed to be for everybody,INCLUDING those sworn to uphold it.

Yep, I posted the story about that in the general forums awhile back. We have a great 'good ol' boy' system in our city.

As far as this is concerned, I haven't heard anything else, but I'm going to message my friend and see what's going on with it.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
You need to go to a case prep class, talk to folks fresh from an academy, or talk to a good prosecutor.

Gee, I went to Law School...is that good enough? Petty charges for a violation, as opposed to felony or more serious misdemeanors, are made via a 'citation' upon release from custody--if it goes that far, or at the scene. When you are released without being booked on some minor charge or issued a citation with PR release automatically rendered, the chances of a charge at a later date are very slight. In more serious cases it is more likely to happen, although add on charges from a baseline at time of arrest are far more likely. While I'm not an expert in MO law, the guy obeyed the cop's lawful order to cross the street. Any subsequent command from the cop was unlawful once he was out of the instant vicinity of the arrest and engaged in peaceful commerce; therefore, the arrest was made in bad faith and is tortuous, should he seek to litigate.
 
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