View Poll Results: What do you think?

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  • CADL filled the TRO because they actually believe everything they are claiming.

    15 34.88%
  • CADL filled the TRO, for press, just to drag MOC through the mud, waste MOC money.

    25 58.14%
  • Eastmeyers is paranoid.

    3 6.98%
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Thread: Am I The Only One That Questions CADL's Motives?

  1. #1
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Am I The Only One That Questions CADL's Motives?

    I am seriously starting to believe, especially with them now claiming OC is brandishing, that CADL is only doing this to get press. I believe they KNOW they are going to loose, and are just trying to drag MOC through the mud, make MOC loose money, and try to make OC look bad to the public.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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  2. #2
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Nope.

    They are trying anything they can, but are just digging themselves a deeper hole.

    Sanity is when you find yourself at the bottom of a hole, you stop digging which CADL is not doing.

    Should have a choice for "CADL really does not know what they are doing", so I voted you were paranoid instead.
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 03-06-2011 at 09:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    And after this is all settled, we'll now have CASE LAW directly involving Open Carry. There won't be any guess-work.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  4. #4
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    +1

    Or we won't have OC. I don't see that happening, but freedom is an illusion that "they" are tiring of, and now have the power to eliminate systematically.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    I am seriously starting to believe, especially with them now claiming OC is brandishing, that CADL is only doing this to get press. I believe they KNOW they are going to loose, and are just trying to drag MOC through the mud, make MOC loose money, and try to make OC look bad to the public.
    I think the CADL is a trial balloon to see if it is possible to circumvent existing law with the hopes of having an "authority" declared above State law... which would enable any "authority" to ban guns anywhere within the State.

    And make no mistake... if it is shown that an "authority" is above State law every township, village, city, and whistle stop, will create a bunch of "authorities" who's first order of business will be to ban guns... all guns including guns carried under a CPL... within the "authorities" jurisdiction.

    Then, within a few very short months, the entire State of Michigan will be blanketed with "authorities"... and all guns will be banned everywhere within the entire State.

    I would suspect that some township "authorities" would ban guns and the carrying of guns anywhere within the township except upon property you actually own.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    flawed poll... i can't vote for both option 2 and 3

    btw... i'm not sure that either the upholding or dismissal of a TRO will qualify as case law. in order for case law to be established, i believe we there would need to be an actual trial, as opposed to a simple hearing.
    but... i'm not a lawyer.
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 03-07-2011 at 08:18 AM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  7. #7
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    Private property? They will have that covered under the private property authority as well.

  8. #8
    Regular Member dukenukum's Avatar
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    I have checked CADL and could NOT FIND ONE PRO GUN BOOK in the entire system just anti gun stuff so guess where they stand on liberty.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukenukum View Post
    I have checked CADL and could NOT FIND ONE PRO GUN BOOK in the entire system just anti gun stuff so guess where they stand on liberty.
    Very interesting... would it be provable that they only have anti gun literature available?

    Does a public library have the discretion and legal ability to control what books will be made available to the public? Do they effectively have the power to censure what information the public has access to?

    Does MOC's attorneys know about this tid bit of information?
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  10. #10
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Very interesting... would it be provable that they only have anti gun literature available?

    Does a public library have the discretion and legal ability to control what books will be made available to the public? Do they effectively have the power to censure what information the public has access to?

    Does MOC's attorneys know about this tid bit of information?
    I have made the lawyers aware.

    I do believe that there are Gunsmithing Books available there, someone had mentioned this in a previous posting.

    Someone also checked into if a book could be donated, like "My Parents Open Carry", and donated books apparently do not make it to the shelf and are sold to help fund the library.

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    flawed poll... i can't vote for both option 2 and 3

    btw... i'm not sure that either the upholding or dismissal of a TRO will qualify as case law. in order for case law to be established, i believe we there would need to be an actual trial, as opposed to a simple hearing.
    but... i'm not a lawyer.
    The TRO was just to stop the activity (OC) until the judge could rule on whether a library is a school, that an authority does not fall under preemption, and that OC is brandishing.

    SO this has far reaching consequences for all gun owners.
    Last edited by Venator; 03-07-2011 at 09:58 AM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  12. #12
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    I have made the lawyers aware.

    I do believe that there are Gunsmithing Books available there, someone had mentioned this in a previous posting.

    Someone also checked into if a book could be donated, like "My Parents Open Carry", and donated books apparently do not make it to the shelf and are sold to help fund the library.
    I loaned ABCs of reloading there. OCd picking it up (before the shotgun) -- no issues. OCd returning it (after shotgun) -- got kicked out.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I think the CADL is a trial balloon to see if it is possible to circumvent existing law with the hopes of having an "authority" declared above State law... which would enable any "authority" to ban guns anywhere within the State.

    And make no mistake... if it is shown that an "authority" is above State law every township, village, city, and whistle stop, will create a bunch of "authorities" who's first order of business will be to ban guns... all guns including guns carried under a CPL... within the "authorities" jurisdiction.

    Then, within a few very short months, the entire State of Michigan will be blanketed with "authorities"... and all guns will be banned everywhere within the entire State.

    I would suspect that some township "authorities" would ban guns and the carrying of guns anywhere within the township except upon property you actually own.
    Once again, he nails it, nutin but net.

  14. #14
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Alright we only have 27 votes y'all! Lets get this moving! We have less than four and a half hours before, our first (of most likely more than one) court dates of CADL ~VS~ MOC.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  15. #15
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    Easy Rider

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    +1

    Or we won't have OC. I don't see that happening, but freedom is an illusion that "they" are tiring of, and now have the power to eliminate systematically.
    George Hanson "Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em."
    .springerdave.

  16. #16
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    It is impossible to see into the minds of others. I am sure cadl does not see themselves as an evil tyrant trying to restrict individual liberty. Cadl has a different perspective and legal opinion than we do when it comes to firearms in public. Fear and ignorance are the reasons the cadl director wants to ban possession of firearms. Not because he is evil, just because he obviously has a different perspective.

    Cadl thinks they have a legal argument, and so fAr the judge has agreed with them. Nobody likes to be wrong. Well educated people, As I assume the director of the library is, especially do not like when lay folk like us try to inform them that they are wrong.

    Ego is also a big factor.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  17. #17
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    Good point. Educated folk are supposed to be educated, especially if they are associated with a library, an educational cashe if you will, this level of ignorance should never go unaddressed.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Good point. Educated folk are supposed to be educated, especially if they are associated with a library, an educational cashe if you will, this level of ignorance should never go unaddressed.
    Let us not confuse "educated" with "wise" for it is the "wise" who understand how to use their "education" but it is the merely "educated" who think they know it all... and act like it too.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 03-08-2011 at 04:45 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  19. #19
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    Pretty much.

  20. #20
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    lol, so did I, as I was trying to figure out how to spell it, thanks.

  21. #21
    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears View Post
    the kid who ocd a shotgun already did that...
    Beerme is that u?

  22. #22
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    perhaps...

  23. #23
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    Beerme is that u?

    YES
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  24. #24
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Poster/thread reported due to Beerme finding his way back and circumventing his banning. You're not welcome here, if you haven't figured that out yet.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  25. #25
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    I think CADL staff are genuinely fearful of holstered guns, but I don't think that they recognize that their fears are illogical and not based on reality or fact. It's unfortunate that a judge cannot see this either.

    My advice to other gun organizations:
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