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Thread: Quick oppen carry question

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    Quick oppen carry question

    I don't really know where to look for answers but, when I was out hunting this weekend I found myself wondering if there is anything wrong with having my handgun in on me while in my car? I only ask because Im 19 I know I Can OC just wondering if I can keep my gun in my holster on me while driving.

    Also is a full flap holster considered concealed carrying?
    Last edited by Asbestos; 03-07-2011 at 01:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asbestos View Post
    I don't really know where to look for answers but, when I was out hunting this weekend I found myself wondering if there is anything wrong with having my handgun in on me while in my car? I only ask because Im 19 I know I Can OC just wondering if I can keep my gun in my holster on me while driving.

    Also is a full flap holster considered concealed carrying?


    Yes, you can openly carry your pistol in your vehicle. Arizona does not restrict carrying in a car. You can OC where ever you please, unless posted otherwise, or in the few restricted areas [federal buildings etc].


    as for the full flap holster, as long as the whole holster is in plain sight, i don't see why it would be considered CC. Although i am not sure because i carry in a serpa II holster.

    hope this helped.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asbestos View Post
    I don't really know where to look for answers but, when I was out hunting this weekend I found myself wondering if there is anything wrong with having my handgun in on me while in my car? I only ask because Im 19 I know I Can OC just wondering if I can keep my gun in my holster on me while driving. Also is a full flap holster considered concealed carrying?
    Suggest you got to the source. The law for under 21 carrying is ARS 13-3102.B.3.

    I would recommend following ARS 13-3102.B.3(e) for car carry since wearing in a vehicle is really "concealed" and you have to be over 21 for that.

    Flap holsters are fine (but not practical, unless you want them as dust covers out in the desert). ARS 13-3102.B(a), (b) and (c) cover that.

    Since you are under 21 and a cop magnet if you carry, I would recommend a professional looking holster that doesn't draw attention. A flap holster looks like something out of an old Western and tends to draw attention.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    I would recommend following ARS 13-3102.B.3(e) for car carry since wearing in a vehicle is really "concealed" and you have to be over 21 for that.
    I read that as carried in a holster or in the glove box/map pocket/trunk is allowed. So it would seem to me that carrying on your belt in a holster is legal for 18-20 year olds. Is this incorrect?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonoran_Tj View Post
    I read that as carried in a holster or in the glove box/map pocket/trunk is allowed. So it would seem to me that carrying on your belt in a holster is legal for 18-20 year olds. Is this incorrect?
    You are right. In a vehicle, you can put it in a holster "within a means of transportation" OR in a hoslter and then placed in one of the 4 magic spots - storage compartment, map pocket, trunk, glove compartment.

    I would recommend putting the holstered gun in one of the 4 magic spots and not on your person because under the old law that applied to everyone (before Constitutional Carry), there was a 1994 Appeals court case that interpreted "within a means of transportation" to mean it must be visible from outside the vehicle.

    Cops have been using the court case for over 16 years. It's unlikely that they will suddenly have an epiphany that it is no longer valid. Most likely they will try to use it for 18-21 year olds since the intent of the law was "open carry" not concealed-in-a-vehicle carry.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 03-11-2011 at 01:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    ...under the old law that applied to everyone (before Constitutional Carry), there was a 1994 Appeals court case that interpreted "within a means of transportation" to mean it must be visible from outside the vehicle.

    Cops have been using the court case for over 16 years. It's unlikely that they will suddenly have an epiphany that it is no longer valid. Most likely they will try to use it for 18-21 year olds since the intent of the law was "open carry" not concealed-in-a-vehicle carry.

    Fred
    Fred, I know AZCDL likes to use that case as part of the reasoning for Constitutional Carry, but - other than the original person in the original case - has anyone actually seen a prosecution under that case law?

    It's always struck me as one of those arguments like the bad guys coming up and "taking the gun" from an open carrier.... yeah, it probably could happen; it's just that nobody has heard of it actually happening.

    (Note: I'm glad the chance of it happening has been nullified by CC - I just get in that skeptical mode every time I see it used as a bogey man to scare the natives. It certainly didn't go with my personal experience, open carrying in and out of my car without a CCW.)

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzbk2l View Post
    it's just that nobody has heard of it actually happening.
    When I took my mandatory CCW Instructor's orientation, back when they required it (I had to drive to Phoenix), the DPS folks used a real world example of an arrest they knew of.

    A DPS cop had to chase down a speeder in a 2-seater sports car. He was pissed when he finally pulled the guy over. A gun was tucked between the seats. It belonged to the driver who had a CCW permit. The passenger did not have a CCW permit and was arrested for carrying concealed without a permit.

    When we were pursuing Constitutional Carry, the resistance we got from law enforcement was NOT because they like permits for the law-abiding. We learned (from them) that it WAS because the CCW laws made for easy arrests. A gun in a car full of supicious looking folks. Gun was not visible from the outside of the car, but technically accessible by everyone in the car. No real detective work needed, just invoke AZ v. Adams or AZ v. Moermann and you have an instant arrest, and in law enforcment's mind a bigger crime had been prevented.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 03-12-2011 at 04:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post

    When we were pursuing Constitutional Carry, the resistance we got from law enforcement was NOT because they like permits for the law-abiding. We learned (from them) that it WAS because the CCW laws made for easy arrests. A gun in a car full of supicious looking folks. Gun was not visible from the outside of the car, but technically accessible by everyone in the car. No real detective work needed, just invoke AZ v. Adams or AZ v. Moermann and you have an instant arrest, and in law enforcment's mind a bigger crime had been prevented.

    Fred
    Earlier today I read that the NYPD was justifying some exorbitant budget expenditures on pot busts for a similar reason. It gave them an excuse to search more people, where they'd uncover other evidence of criminal activity, or, otherwise, a pretext for a more involved search.

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