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Thread: Carry in Shoshone National Forest.

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    Regular Member 1000ydshooter's Avatar
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    Carry in Shoshone National Forest.

    I will be visiting Wy this summer from Va. I did some looking but couldnt find what i was looking for on carry Oc or CC in Shoshone National Forest. Any one got any info on this so i dont get myself in a twist. Thanks!!

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    When?

    Hey 1000yardshooter,

    My wife, brother-in-law, sister-sister-law, and I will be in Wyoming in mid July.

    You can CC if you have a CCW with reciprocity for Wyoming. You can OC without a CCW. Check with the closest ranger station to find good plinking areas.

    This Link is from an NGO but the links within may prove useful:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wyoming.pdf

    Here is the NPS page for Yellowstone's gun policy (Grand Tetons NP has the same info):
    http://www.nps.gov/yell/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

    We are staying in a Cabin at Colter Bay, Lake Jackson, Grand Teton National Park. We will be hiking Yellowstone, GRTE, and Bridger-Teton National Forest.

    Bear spray and a .44 magnum (or larger) is advisable as ursus horibilis roams freely:
    http://billingsgazette.com/news/stat...cc4c03286.html
    http://trib.com/news/state-and-regio...08093e79a.html
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...t-his-arm.html
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/29...-dead-mauling/
    http://www.pinedaleonline.com/news/2...hargedandb.htm

    Ursus Horibilis is a protected species; if one charges your party, make sure you use the bear spray first and your weapon second. By using the bear spray first, you may give yourself a legal defense for your self defense actions. And, of course, if the bear spray works, you won't wound or kill the bear.

    Forest Service land has dual jurisdiction. 16 USC section 480 codifies Wyoming's civil and criminal jurisdiction for all National Forests including Shoshone NF. Shoshone was not regranted by Wyoming and Congress never accepted such a recession; therefore, Wyoming civil and criminal law has jurisdiction.

    markm
    Last edited by MarkBofRAdvocate; 03-07-2011 at 07:37 PM. Reason: I added info.

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    Regular Member 1000ydshooter's Avatar
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    Thaks for the advice ill check into it. not planning on going to yellowstone. Not a big fan of big tourist areas. family memebr just purchased a ranch not far from there going to stay with them a week or so, little r&r time after getting home from this contract. just thinking about taking my BFR 480 ruger while im out hiking just incase some 2 or 4 legged critters want to give me problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000ydshooter View Post
    Thaks for the advice ill check into it. not planning on going to yellowstone. Not a big fan of big tourist areas. family memebr just purchased a ranch not far from there going to stay with them a week or so, little r&r time after getting home from this contract. just thinking about taking my BFR 480 ruger while im out hiking just incase some 2 or 4 legged critters want to give me problems.
    Hey 1000,

    The NPS Yellowstone site has links to Wyoming gun law. It is useful for investigative purposes.

    markm

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    By using the bear spray first, you may give yourself a legal defense for your self defense actions. And, of course, if the bear spray works, you won't wound or kill the bear.
    And if the spray DOESN'T work, you may be dead and have no chance to shoot. To hell with the spray... shoot. Those things move fast and they mean BUSINESS.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Sssshhhhhhhh!

    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    And if the spray DOESN'T work, you may be dead and have no chance to shoot. To hell with the spray... shoot. Those things move fast and they mean BUSINESS.
    Mamaliberty:

    OMG! Gubmint persecutors roam our sites like ursus horribilis roams Wyoming. No, no, no--always use your bear spray first!

    However, the sequence of self defense actions taken in the woods should stay in the woods.

    Here is a URL that describes how you should speak with gubmint persecutors after an ursus horibilis self defense action:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

    markm

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Here is a URL that describes how you should speak with gubmint persecutors after an ursus horibilis self defense action:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

    markm
    Yes, that's a good video. Not too much help when you are being chewed on by the bear, however.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    If you like pain and agony always use the bear spray before you shoot a Grizzly. He can run at a speed of 30 MPH and can cover 109 yards in 6 seconds or less. What is the effective and useful distance of most bear sprays? The momentum of the Grizzly would bring him to your position even after hitting him with the spray.

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    No kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    If you like pain and agony always use the bear spray before you shoot a Grizzly. He can run at a speed of 30 MPH and can cover 109 yards in 6 seconds or less. What is the effective and useful distance of most bear sprays? The momentum of the Grizzly would bring him to your position even after hitting him with the spray.
    1484337,

    And now that you have incriminated yourself, go ahead, use your gun first!

    My legal defense remains intact. The persecutors will have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that I used my gun first, and then they must prove that my actions were not self defense. Muddy-up the water.

    Will your cell mate be named Bubba if you have a grizz encounter?

    I do not stand corrected; always use bear spray first! I will tell the persecutors that it was self defense, the bear spray did not work, and lastly, I will plead the fifth by S-ingT*U.

    In the UP of Michigan there is a rule for shooting wolves. It is called the three s's. Shoot, shovel, and ST*U.

    markm
    Last edited by MarkBofRAdvocate; 03-10-2011 at 01:53 PM. Reason: fixed typo

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    No kidding-the s's

    Funny, we have the same rule in Wyoming pertaining to wolves. I was told this by a State Sen many years ago. He said it was the common acceptance in the legislature in Cheyenne. I was glad to hear it at the time and remain so.
    It has been the norm for commoners (free people in the USSA) to use common sense in dealing with stupidity from the Federal Gov't. It shouldn't be a big deal. Why make it so?? Just aim straight and true and try not to jerk the trigger.

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    Nothing like advice from somebody living in Roseville, California for a Wyoming issue...

    Don't you just love it when somebody from Calif chimes in on a topic they know so much about after doing internet research and watching you tube videos but have zero real 1st hand knowledge.

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    1000ydshooter stop in at Dubois and visit the grave of PFC Chance Phelps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Rl6qqPOnc

    While i do not see eye to eye with momma on many issues, she is spot on. only bait carries pepper spray for bears, let alone says to spray bears with it instead of shooting a bear charging you.

    We have had bears wander into camp when camping in Wyoming and even with a 12ga shotgun loaded with slugs in the tent with us it was a humbling experience. I carried a 45 Colt loaded with http://www.buffalobore.com/ ammo, but http://www.garrettcartridges.com/ is also a great ammo maker. You want hard cast bullets, not the FMJ or JHP crap, they do not penatrate deep enough to do any serious damage.

    More often than not they will give you a wide berth, stay away from the wildlife, do not get close wanting pictures or to pet the pretty bear, watch from a distance, be aware of your surroundings, don't be stupid and all will be good.

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    Mjolnir, I dont have any first hand experience with 'ol Grizz either but I do know that they're very tough animals and are damn hard to kill, even with rifles. My thoughts are that if a grizz can shrug off getting shot then bear spray aint going to do squat to them either. Therefore, anytime I'm in Grizz country I have my Marlin 1895G in .45-70 loaded up, it'll certainly do better against grizz than my .38 S&W or bear spray.
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    I accept the Kali criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
    Nothing like advice from somebody living in Roseville, California for a Wyoming issue...

    Don't you just love it when somebody from Calif chimes in on a topic they know so much about after doing internet research and watching you tube videos but have zero real 1st hand knowledge.
    Hey Mjolner:

    I have had Alaskan Brown bear encounters. The cubs were bigger than ANY lower-48 adult bears!

    The ursus horibilis that I encountered in Yellowstone was a puppy dog in comparison.

    The Black bears that I have come face-to-face with at 2 am were not fun encounters either.

    Just because I am from Kali does not mean that I have not spent time in the woods. Kali has more mountains and taller mountains than Wyoming has. I am a Michigan whitetail hunter. Have you had a bear encounter in Michigan? Kali has the lowest spot and the highest spot in the lower 48: Death Valley and Mt. Whitney.

    In Kalifornia, we are accustomed to state and federal persecutors Monday-morning-quarterbacking our actions. If I have a bear encounter in Wyoming, there will be bear spray all over the bear and in its lungs. The feds will have to prove that the bear spray was deployed after-the-fact. Legal self defense is very important.

    I understand that Wyoming residents are not accustomed to defending themselves before bureaucrats. Having lived in Kali for most of my life, I am accustomed to defending myself physically, while ensuring a legal defense at the same time.

    Self defense and a legal defense are two different things. You can do both.

    markm

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Hey Mjolner:

    markm
    Snip, cut out the non relevant parts of a off topic rant.

    You can not and will not have the ability to spray a bear and then shoot it, feel free to save the bear some time and effort, spray yourself and then shoot yourself, the bear will not enjoy his/her meal as much since you took away the joy of it's playing with its food and might leave more of you to be burred.

    But if you want to live in your little dream world feel free, just keep your fallacies to yourself so other people do not get hurt/killed listening to really bad advice.

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    You don't "read between the lines" very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
    Snip, cut out the non relevant parts of a off topic rant.

    You can not and will not have the ability to spray a bear and then shoot it, feel free to save the bear some time and effort, spray yourself and then shoot yourself, the bear will not enjoy his/her meal as much since you took away the joy of it's playing with its food and might leave more of you to be burred.

    But if you want to live in your little dream world feel free, just keep your fallacies to yourself so other people do not get hurt/killed listening to really bad advice.

    Hey Mjolner,

    All bear encounters are different. Different situations require different responses. I have never shot a bear because they all left the scene. The Alaskan brownies and the grizzly that I encountered did the same thing (I have had about 30 encounters at close range; only four encounters were with "dangerous" bears).

    Reading the "demeanor" of the bear is critical.

    I have SCUBA dived with many, many sharks. I have been in schools of sharks. Again, demeanor is critical. YOUR DEMEANOR IS CRITICAL.

    Most bears don't think of you as food just as sharks don't think of you as food. Don't act or look like prey, and usually, you will be OK.

    On this thread, our discussion is about landsharks and grizzly bureaucrats. Not the wild kind found in a hibernation den waiting for spring, to wake up from their slumber. You have failed to get this point.

    For the record, I will you use bear spray first-- I am not so stupid as to incriminate myself on a public forum, before a dangerous encounter occurs. However, I reserve the right to keep what happens in the forest, in the forest. ST*U when speaking with bureaucrats and LEO if you have a bear encounter that goes bad. Let LEO prove the bear did not charge you in a dangerous way, let LEO prove that you did not follow "accepted" protocol. I will make it easy for LEO to prove that I DID follow "accepted protocol."

    What you do in the woods is your problem. What I do in the woods is my problem. It is up to LEO to PROVE you were not justified in killing an endangered species. Legal defense is different from actual defense.

    Do you understand the theme of this thread now?

    God, I hope so!

    markm

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    Wyo. bears

    Seems to me that if the official comes upon a gunshot bear smelling of pepper spray, any 'reasonable' person must conclude that the law was followed...right?

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    I agree, maybe...

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrarian View Post
    Seems to me that if the official comes upon a gunshot bear smelling of pepper spray, any 'reasonable' person must conclude that the law was followed...right?
    Hey Contrarian,

    If the pepper-spray-covered bear was shot in the ass at 50 yards, then no, a reasonable person would conclude that the bear spray worked and that the dangerous situation had been averted before lethal force was used.

    If the pepper-spray-covered bear was shot in the face or side and at very close range, then I agree with you.

    markm

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Hey Mjolner,

    Do you understand the theme of this thread now?
    Without a doubt I understand you think extremly highly of yourself & without question you and Timothy Treadwell have a few things in common.

    Just hope you do not end up like him & even more important, hope others do not actually listen to your ignorant & dangerous advice and end up bear bait.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Og1pF8KwC8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
    Without a doubt I understand you think extremly highly of yourself & without question you and Timothy Treadwell have a few things in common.

    Just hope you do not end up like him & even more important, hope others do not actually listen to your ignorant & dangerous advice and end up bear bait.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Og1pF8KwC8
    Sorry man,

    You will never get it.

    markm

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    Macho man that beat on chest and swagger when walk only need some bear spray and a switch when he go bear hunting wearing he scuba suit and carrying a shark under he arm. Eee gad what a braggart.

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    It aint bragg'n if....

    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    Macho man that beat on chest and swagger when walk only need some bear spray and a switch when he go bear hunting wearing he scuba suit and carrying a shark under he arm. Eee gad what a braggart.
    Hey all,

    I guess the joke is on me. Ya'all are just play'n me. You can't be this stupid.

    Sometimes, I am a little slow!!!!

    markm

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    Regular Member 1000ydshooter's Avatar
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    Ok im gona add in here as i am the one who started this tread. I asked a simple ? and found out what i needed with info i was given. Now this has turned into a who's D*@k is bigger than who's contest. Stop acting like a bunch of 5 year olds.


    Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate
    Hey Mjolner,

    Do you understand the theme of this thread now?


    you must not understand it Mark as you have strayed way off of what it was started for.
    I agree with one post you sure seem to think alot of yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000ydshooter View Post
    Ok im gona add in here as i am the one who started this tread. I asked a simple ? and found out what i needed with info i was given. Now this has turned into a who's D*@k is bigger than who's contest. Stop acting like a bunch of 5 year olds.


    Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate
    Hey Mjolner,

    Do you understand the theme of this thread now?


    you must not understand it Mark as you have strayed way off of what it was started for.
    I agree with one post you sure seem to think alot of yourself.
    Now that you've gotten your info 1000ydshooter, please bear with me a moment to reply to those that think they know bears.

    Remember Timothy Treadwell, a controversial wildlife activist who spent 13 summers living among bears in the Alaskan wilderness. He was killed by a bear that he thought he understood. Treadwell was described as a" self-styled kind warrior, and irresponsible,"by one official.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...izzly_man.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Now that you've gotten your info 1000ydshooter, please bear with me a moment to reply to those that think they know bears.

    Remember Timothy Treadwell, a controversial wildlife activist who spent 13 summers living among bears in the Alaskan wilderness. He was killed by a bear that he thought he understood. Treadwell was described as a" self-styled kind warrior, and irresponsible,"by one official.
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...izzly_man.html
    Hello 1000yard shooter,

    Threads always stray off topic to some degree. Your OP got the discussion started; that is all. The controversial topic became bear spray and a legal defense if a person shoots an endangerd species.

    I am sorry that you feel that I hijacked YOUR thread. Do you have a pink-slip for this thread, or is it part of the public domain?

    Hey Grapeshot,

    Who is advocating becoming "one" with the grizzlies on this thread? I am advocating being prepared to kill any grizzly that is threatening to attack a human; however, create a plan that allows for a criminal defense. Have one person in your party who deploys bears spray while others draw and prepare to fire. Why is this so illogical?

    I know why...the people who are posting here HAVE NO backwoods experience. I can only assume that the farthest some here have gotten from their car is about 10 feet to take a leak.

    Here is a story about Fed persecutors hunting down the murderer of a wolf in Gallatin National Forest:
    http://www.kulr8.com/news/state/118701859.html

    Again my point: Think about a legal defense before you go into the woods. For my wife and I, our plan is for me to carry the gun and she carries the bear spray. She does not like packing heat, so she packs the bear spray. I deploy the gun, she deploys the bear spray.

    If the bear is inquisitive and not charging, it gets bear spray in the face. If it charges it gets both, and then I may have to face the persecutors who will treat me as a convicted felon until I prove myself innocent.

    I understand that it takes a small degree of intelligence to cogitate over two diverse, and somewhat abstract thoughts, but real life requires it.

    GET WITH THE PROGRAM! And oh yes, spend some time in the woods and you will learn that most wild animals want to give you as much space as you want to give them. Your eyes, ears, and binoculars will save you from many wild animal attacks. See them, stay clear, and enjoy. Be smart.

    Again, I apologize to those who are upset that my boots are worn-out and quite muddy; experience in the woods has allowed me to master my fears.

    Courage is the mastery of fear, not the absence of fear.

    markm

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