Buying Handgun Ammo

Thanks, I had found that, and HOLY

stainless1911 said:

Thanks, I had found that, and HOLY

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I think it is theoretically possible with any firearm. Remember, you are forcing an explosion into a very small area.
I am certainly no expert, I consider it a problem of "tolerances". As the machining of firearms become more and more precise, issues come up. I think of my SW M686 357mag. I can shoot anything through it flawlessly. But, with the gap... and tolerances that allow for some give, this is possible. But take a modern pistol or rifle, add some after-market barrels/parts from-who knows-where into the mix, and finally add hand-loads where the reloader's resizing station had to work hard to get the ammo back to specs (pretty, shiny rings around the cases) or where powder measures may be off, you have an accident waiting to happen.
With Glock, part of the issue WAS at one time an inability of Glock to acknowledge any problems, with the link above about the M1A, the barrel appears to have been a problem (overheated by the manufacturer?) If there was one, I am sure there are more barrels out there with the same issue. I think Glock has changed it's tune a bit, and even the writer of the page suggests factory ammo to fix the issue with older Glocks.
At any rate, it pays to know your firearm, and ammunition, through and through and what issues may come up.
As an aside, I also weigh every round of my factory ammunition and if I see any noticeable discrepancies, I toss it... and if it happens too much with one brand in one specific caliber, I change brands.

There was a thread recently in a Yahoo group I'm a member of, and it started with this little gif.



Naturally, this gave us all a few laughs, but it got us to chatting about some of the other "shortfalls" of the basic Glock design, such as the infamous "Glock leg," referring to the rather embarrassing act of shooting yourself with your own Glock. Aptly illustrated by a DEA agent in a school room full of children. :Youtube video

I recognized one of those clops from the Terminator movie

Big Gay Al said:

There was a thread recently in a Yahoo group I'm a member of, and it started with this little gif.



Naturally, this gave us all a few laughs, but it got us to chatting about some of the other "shortfalls" of the basic Glock design, such as the infamous "Glock leg," referring to the rather embarrassing act of shooting yourself with your own Glock. Aptly illustrated by a DEA agent in a school room full of children. :Youtube video

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I love my Glock. That being said, Glock perfection is not really perfection. Gaston Glock is the reason that these problems persisted. My understanding is that he has made the changes necessary to eliminate MOST of the problem. Also, the problem of Kabooms is not exclusive to Glocks... every firearm has the potential to become shrapnel. If people would just take the time to learn the nuances of their firearms and ammunition, most problems could be eliminated. Simply following the suggestions in one's owner's manual would eliminate most problems.

DrTodd said:

I love my Glock. That being said, Glock perfection is not really perfection. Gaston Glock is the reason that these problems persisted. My understanding is that he has made the changes necessary to eliminate MOST of the problem. Also, the problem of Kabooms is not exclusive to Glocks... every firearm has the potential to become shrapnel. If people would just take the time to learn the nuances of their firearms and ammunition, most problems could be eliminated. Simply following the suggestions in one's owner's manual would eliminate most problems.

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Yeah, part of the thread from Yahoo mentioned that Gaston Glock was a major contributor to the Glock Ka-booms, something about not wanting to change the barrel design or something.

Unfortunately, the "ka-boom" is not the only problem with the design. Glock leg is another problem. With no manual safety, and police firearm training being what it is, it's not all that uncommon for people to try to holster their weapon with their finger still on the trigger, or at least, still inside the trigger guard.

On most older designs, that usually not so much of a problem. One of the first things you learn to do is apply the safety. But that's not possible with the Glock.

Dear Bill, Your right about the Glocks, they are okay if you do not use them a lot. Most of all wounds created by the Australian Police force is caused by them having their index finger still on the trigger when they return them to the holster. leg wounds groin wounds, some terminal. Not the pistols fault but its symptomatic to a wrong design mentality, which is magnified by the lack of poor training or too much of it as that's one of the few times they get them out of the holster. The boys in blue have trouble with the concept that they are always loaded.

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Big Gay Al said:

Yeah, part of the thread from Yahoo mentioned that Gaston Glock was a major contributor to the Glock Ka-booms, something about not wanting to change the barrel design or something.

Unfortunately, the "ka-boom" is not the only problem with the design. Glock leg is another problem. With no manual safety, and police firearm training being what it is, it's not all that uncommon for people to try to holster their weapon with their finger still on the trigger, or at least, still inside the trigger guard.

On most older designs, that usually not so much of a problem. One of the first things you learn to do is apply the safety. But that's not possible with the Glock.

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Al - to each their own. If you don't know the 1st & most important safety feature of a pistol is the owner If you are dumb enough to attempt to holster any pistol with your finger on the trigger then oh well bad things will happen. Be it a 454 or 22 correct?

Glock9mmOldStyle said:

Al - to each their own. If you don't know the 1st & most important safety feature of a pistol is the owner If you are dumb enough to attempt to holster any pistol with your finger on the trigger then oh well bad things will happen. Be it a 454 or 22 correct?

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That is very correct. I don't think I've ever tried to holster a pistol with my finger still on the trigger. But, then again, I've had extensive training, starting when I was 12, on how to handle firearms, safely.

To my mind though, I don't think the Glock is a pistol that should be used by people who are not heavily ingrained in firearm safety. That sort of mixture is begging for trouble. Unfortunately.

I have a Springfield XDm. When I holster it I do so only by the bottom of the grip. Ergo, I don't have my hand on the back-strap safety and DEFINITELY not on the trigger. I don't see how I'd have an ND like that

I'm not criticizing anyone. Or how they handle their firearm. But in professional training, you are suppose to holster a pistol the same way you un holster a firearm. Pinky, ring, and middle fingers on your grip, with your thumb on the other side of the grip, making a firm hold on your pistol. With your index finger running along side the slide of the pistol/revolver.

Your index finger is to ONLY go into the trigger guard if you intend to shoot. NOT IF YOU THINK YOUR IN DANGER AND THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE TO SHOT, BUT ONLY ONCE YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE PULLING THE TRIGGER. Once you have finished pulling the trigger (be that once, twice or to unload the magazine/cylinder) your index finger immediately goes back to running along the slide in an outstretched manner. This is how you SHOULD ALWAYS TRAIN, this should be INGRAINED into you. This should be automatic.

This should be so natural and automatic before you even hold your first loaded firearm. PERIOD. This is safety. If you are taking someone shooting for the first time, you should sit at your house and teach them this along with the other safety rules before you leave the house, and you should not allow them to handle a loaded firearm until you see that it is natural for them to do this.

Again I am not passing judgment on anyone, but no one should ever relay on any "safety". Thats why I like Glocks, I rely on ME!

I agree. My daughter is 8 now, and the other day I handed her a .45 colt, looked at her index finger, and it was right where it should be, straight, held comfortably along side the frame. When I praised her for it, she smiled and said that she didn't even realize she had done it. I told her that's how its supposed to be. It was a proud moment.

eastmeyers said:

I'm not criticizing anyone. Or how they handle their firearm. But in professional training, you are suppose to holster a pistol the same way you un holster a firearm. Pinky, ring, and middle fingers on your grip, with your thumb on the other side of the grip, making a firm hold on your pistol. With your index finger running along side the slide of the pistol/revolver.

Your index finger is to ONLY go into the trigger guard if you intend to shoot. NOT IF YOU THINK YOUR IN DANGER AND THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE TO SHOT, BUT ONLY ONCE YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE PULLING THE TRIGGER. Once you have finished pulling the trigger (be that once, twice or to unload the magazine/cylinder) your index finger immediately goes back to running along the slide in an outstretched manner. This is how you SHOULD ALWAYS TRAIN, this should be INGRAINED into you. This should be automatic.

This should be so natural and automatic before you even hold your first loaded firearm. PERIOD. This is safety. If you are taking someone shooting for the first time, you should sit at your house and teach them this along with the other safety rules before you leave the house, and you should not allow them to handle a loaded firearm until you see that it is natural for them to do this.

Again I am not passing judgment on anyone, but no one should ever relay on any "safety". Thats why I like Glocks, I rely on ME!

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Well, I rely on ME too, but from what I've read, heard and seen, I think it's more common among people who have not had much exposure to firearms, and also have had at best, rudimentary training in firearm safety.

Police departments are pretty infamous in general for the lack of firearm training. Some departments are better than others, but from what I've seen, they are the exception, rather than the rule.

If I were in charge of a PD with people from all over, firearm safety would be at the top of my list, regardless of the firearm being issued. And that video from youtube would be required watching for every day of firearm training.

Big Gay Al said:

Glock leg is another problem. With no manual safety...
One of the first things you learn to do is apply the safety. But that's not possible with the Glock.

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:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Glocks do have safeties.
3 of them: 1 external, 2 internal.

The external safety is deactivated by putting your finger squarely on the trigger.
Not catching the side, as might happen while reholstering, but in the middle, which moves the trigger safety out of the way & allows the trigger to be pulled back.

The bar attached to the trigger moves the 2 internal safeties out of the way: allowing the striker safety to move out of the way of the striker, and the sear safety to drop the rear of the lever out of the way, both allowing the pin to move forward.

Here's an interactive video:
http://www.genitron.com/Basics/Glock23/P2Glock.html

The most basic safety is the same as any other firearm: keep your finger off the trigger.

Since there's no external lever or button like on other models, it's not "handed", so would likely have prevented the tragedy in MO, where a man was trying to disable the (right-handed) safety on an (unfamiliar) semiauto while practicing shooting left-handed (for a CCW class). In trying to disable the safety, he pointed it at himself & shot himself.

stainless1911 said:

I agree. My daughter is 8 now, and the other day I handed her a .45 colt, looked at her index finger, and it was right where it should be, straight, held comfortably along side the frame. When I praised her for it, she smiled and said that she didn't even realize she had done it. I told her that's how its supposed to be. It was a proud moment.

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OH EM GEE!!! You let an 8 year old hold a GUN!!???

</sarcasm>

MKEgal, you forgot the 4th safety. Between the ears.

MKEgal said:

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Glocks do have safeties.
3 of them: 1 external, 2 internal.

The external safety is deactivated by putting your finger squarely on the trigger.
Not catching the side, as might happen while reholstering, but in the middle, which moves the trigger safety out of the way & allows the trigger to be pulled back.

The bar attached to the trigger moves the 2 internal safeties out of the way: allowing the striker safety to move out of the way of the striker, and the sear safety to drop the rear of the lever out of the way, both allowing the pin to move forward.

Here's an interactive video:
http://www.genitron.com/Basics/Glock23/P2Glock.html

The most basic safety is the same as any other firearm: keep your finger off the trigger.

Since there's no external lever or button like on other models, it's not "handed", so would likely have prevented the tragedy in MO, where a man was trying to disable the (right-handed) safety on an (unfamiliar) semiauto while practicing shooting left-handed (for a CCW class). In trying to disable the safety, he pointed it at himself & shot himself.

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In the last case, I'd say the man's "ultimate safety," his brain was not functioning properly. If it had been, he'd have just put the pistol down and let someone with more experience handle it.

If I really wanted a Glock, I'd have bought a revolver. They both work about the same, they just load differently.