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Thread: IRS sponsored BUG hunt!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    IRS sponsored BUG hunt!

    Well, the IRS is buying me a firearm this year. Major issue. What to buy?

    I need an ankle carried BUG and I'm really looking hard at the Taurus TCP in .380 (6+1). It's a good deal with 2 mags and a holster included. Also the slide locks open when empty which none of the other .380s offer.

    Then again, for really lightweight carry they make a classic, the PT-22 in .22LR (8+1). No extras and loading the second mag is not easy if the gun is empty.

    I'm planning on the basic Uncle Mike's ankle holster but I'll gladly listen to experience on that front as well. It just cannot ride on the waist.

    Price isn't much different and I know that most people think .22LR is a joke for self defense. Then again, there's lots of dead and injured gang bangers don't think so.

    So, shoot. What's your opinion? Where should Ol' Freedom First drop his fiat currency?
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  2. #2
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    I guess I would be lying, if i said i dont want to burst your bubble, but
    the IRS will not be paying for your new gun!
    you will be buying your new gun with money the IRS has been holding for you,
    the IRS has been steeling money from your pay checks all last year!
    you will be paying for your new gun with money the IRS, in its benevolent charity,
    is going to Return to you!

    OT,,, i have a 35 yr old grendel P12, 11 + 1, DAO, last shot slide stop!
    also, take a look at the P3AT and the ruger LCP.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Ruger LCR .357

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    Id say the TCP or Kel Tek's also, and maybe one of he NAA Guardians (though they are a bit more hefty) -but all 3 are very thin/slim.

    As for the .22/.25 nay-sayers, let them miss-out. My BUG is a simple, old Raven MP with which I have practiced extensively enough to shoot well with.
    Routine practice for it is 6 shots into a playing card at varying distances out to 25 ft.
    Contrary to the myths out there, it will shoot that accurate, is reliable.etc. I have no hesitation using it for a BUG.
    Last edited by j4l; 03-08-2011 at 08:19 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I guess I would be lying, if i said i dont want to burst your bubble, but
    the IRS will not be paying for your new gun!
    you will be buying your new gun with money the IRS has been holding for you,
    the IRS has been steeling money from your pay checks all last year!
    you will be paying for your new gun with money the IRS, in its benevolent charity,
    is going to Return to you!
    Actually, based on my income and due to having four kids plus a couple of tax credits the unconstitutional IRS system actually gives me fiat currency to work. So I guess YOU are buying me a new gun. Sorry.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  6. #6
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,, then!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    Actually, based on my income and due to having four kids plus a couple of tax credits the unconstitutional IRS system actually gives me fiat currency to work. So I guess YOU are buying me a new gun. Sorry.
    I want my money back!!!

    I had deductions, and saved on my tax rate, But i never got free money, I dont like that!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  7. #7
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Gotta earn my hypocrite stripes...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I want my money back!!!

    I had deductions, and saved on my tax rate, But i never got free money, I dont like that!!
    Sorry Defender... I do really think it sucks but they'll just keep whatever we don't take back, so I take whatever I can. Not that our so called "taxes" amount to anything in the face of the spending that has been SOP in DC for the last 60 years. I doubt that the entire IRS take covers the interest on the national debt at this point. That leaves us with what?... Can the feds go to a pawn shop? How much for an old nuke sub? A old F-14? Maybe a carrier?
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  8. #8
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Guardians

    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Id say the TCP or Kel Tek's also, and maybe one of he NAA Guardians (though they are a bit more hefty) -but all 3 are very thin/slim.

    As for the .22/.25 nay-sayers, let them miss-out. My BUG is a simple, old Raven MP with which I have practiced extensively enough to shoot well with.
    Routine practice for it is 6 shots into a playing card at varying distances out to 25 ft.
    Contrary to the myths out there, it will shoot that accurate, is reliable.etc. I have no hesitation using it for a BUG.
    My wife has a .32ACP Guardian. Nice looking gun but MEAN to shoot. I have fairly large hands and it's a 2.5 finger gun at best with the pinkie extension mag baseplate. Painful. That's my concern with any smaller gun. I need to practice to be safe but if it hurts I am not sure I will often enough.

    That's the one thing going for the .22lr over the .380.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  9. #9
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    Actually, based on my income and due to having four kids plus a couple of tax credits the unconstitutional IRS system actually gives me fiat currency to work. So I guess YOU are buying me a new gun. Sorry.
    So what I want to know is this. If you got back more from the IRS then you paid in, how does that make you feel? Knowing that you're taking money that you didn't earn and using it for a sidearm to defend yourself and family is laudable, but me and others buying it for you is not.

    Thomas Jefferson:

    To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

    And he also said something words to the affect; When the majority figures out that they can vote themselves out of the need to work the Republic is gone.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    So what I want to know is this. If you got back more from the IRS then you paid in, how does that make you feel? Knowing that you're taking money that you didn't earn and using it for a sidearm to defend yourself and family is laudable, but me and others buying it for you is not.

    Thomas Jefferson:

    To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

    And he also said something words to the affect; When the majority figures out that they can vote themselves out of the need to work the Republic is gone.
    Sir, you and Mr. Jefferson are completely correct and I agree with you 100%. Nope, I do not feel great about it... Damn, I'm a hypocrite. Yep. But what else should I do? Give the money back to the government? Should I send it to you? Just not file and go to jail?

    I will spend most of it on my four kids anyways and since we are choosing to homeschool I pay lots of property taxes for schools we do not use. Plus I get to buy all the school materials "they" would provide. Make it right? Nope. Can I change the unjust nature of "our" wealth re-distribution system? Nope. So, the only thing to do is play the system while fighting it. Yeah, it's bi-polar, but whatever. Plus it gets me a new gun! Wait, damn, that hypocrite thing...

    Please just take a deep breath and read some of my other posts. I'm just a guy trying to get through this life, same as most of you. Am I perfect? Nope. That's why I will give people a pass when I see their own hypocrisy manifested. Hope you guys can get past this government mandated unfairness.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  11. #11
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    Sir, you and Mr. Jefferson are completely correct and I agree with you 100%. Nope, I do not feel great about it... Damn, I'm a hypocrite. Yep. But what else should I do? Give the money back to the government? Should I send it to you? Just not file and go to jail?

    I will spend most of it on my four kids anyways and since we are choosing to homeschool I pay lots of property taxes for schools we do not use. Plus I get to buy all the school materials "they" would provide. Make it right? Nope. Can I change the unjust nature of "our" wealth re-distribution system? Nope. So, the only thing to do is play the system while fighting it. Yeah, it's bi-polar, but whatever. Plus it gets me a new gun! Wait, damn, that hypocrite thing...

    Please just take a deep breath and read some of my other posts. I'm just a guy trying to get through this life, same as most of you. Am I perfect? Nope. That's why I will give people a pass when I see their own hypocrisy manifested. Hope you guys can get past this government mandated unfairness.
    God Bless YOU. And teach your children well. At least they won't learn socialism, except the evils of it.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    A pt-22 is a good gun.
    Has a tip-up barrel, drop a round in the pipe and put a mag in and shoot away.
    I carry mine in a back pocket and its very handy.
    Shoots every time I pull the trigger. And its affordable.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

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    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

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    I have no experience with the Taurus TCP other then fondling one in a shop awhile ago, seemed kinda heavy to me for its size.

    I do have some experience with a PT-22 and while the gun is a pretty nice piece, the factory mag is a complete POS (or atleast the used to be, its been a few years sense I shot one...maybe they fixed the issue). The seem running up the backside of the mag is spot welded every half-inch except for the very top where there is no spot weld, thus allowing the feed lips to spread apart and cause all kinds of feed issues.

    If you go with the PT22, if they haven't fixed that issue by now then I would suggest looking at aftermarket mags...I haven't used the aftermarket mags in a PT22 but they look and feel to be better made and have fully welded seems.

    I also like my Kel-Tec .380 a lot, having a slide stop isn't necessary in a BUG but that's just my opinion.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I have a TCP and absolutely love it. It a good quality gun and it looks nice too.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  15. #15
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    God Bless YOU. And teach your children well. At least they won't learn socialism, except the evils of it.
    God bless you too Kansas.

    I've got an 8 year old boy who shoots straight at the range and asks hard questions about civics. Not the rice burning car mind you, civilian government studies. He can ID different types of govts by name and we're working our way through the Constitution. Amazing the difference a passionate parent can make.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  16. #16
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    The problem with TCP's is that they've had way more quality control issues than I would want in any gun, nevermind a defensive one. A quick google search will reveal this rather extensively.


    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    My wife has a .32ACP Guardian. Nice looking gun but MEAN to shoot. I have fairly large hands and it's a 2.5 finger gun at best with the pinkie extension mag baseplate. Painful. That's my concern with any smaller gun. I need to practice to be safe but if it hurts I am not sure I will often enough.

    That's the one thing going for the .22lr over the .380.
    I ended up buying a .32 ACP MPA protector out of necessity because of needing a minimally sized gun, and it's about exactly the same thing as a Seecamp, which is about exactly the same as a NAA guardian. Honestly they don't kick that hard, the LCP/P3AT type guns are much worse for muzzle flip and recoil. The Seecamp type guns are blowback operated, but the .32 is a pipsqueak round to begin with, and has light recoil no matter what you do with it, particularly if you use a good, convulsive grip. If you find the blowback .32's to be too harsh with their recoil, you should probably consider a Kel Tec .32 rather than a similar .380. Not such a good trigger pull, but reliable and easy to shoot, plus enough penetration and power to stop someone with good shot placement.

    One note about .22, it's not so much how dead it will make attackers, it's how fast it will get them there. A little hole in an aggressors upper chest that kills them later that day as surgeons fail to save them is a lot less meaningful when seconds count, than a shot that makes an attacker expire in seconds. I consider .32 FMJ to be a very basic minimum for last ditch self defense, and generally a woefully bad idea. But not nearly as bad of an idea as a .22 doing less than 1000 FPS.

    To further show my point that .22 is completely useless as a self defense strategy, note that if you can carry a .22 NAA mini, you can almost certainly carry a Seecamp which will give you better penetration and much more power.

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    Last edited by Michigander; 03-10-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Since you homeschool, how does the "gun-free" school zone thing
    duke it out with the "you can have guns in your own house" thing?
    (Yes, I'm joking.)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Since you homeschool, how does the "gun-free" school zone thing
    duke it out with the "you can have guns in your own house" thing?
    (Yes, I'm joking.)
    Well, we do have a "No playing with toy guns at the school table" rule. Does that count?

    The wanna be school shooter coming off the street into my house will be in for a shock. Gun free is what happens when the range is clear and hot.
    Last edited by Freedom First; 03-12-2011 at 01:35 AM.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

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