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New to gun ownership

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
Long story short; DUI in Oregon in 2005 and the judge was a hard ass and put me on probation for 60 months. Believe me when I say I learned my lesson. I just have to wait 5 years before I can apply for a permit.

Respectfully, I think 5 years probation is not really very hard for DUI. More than typical for a first offense. But way less than I think we ought to be imposing, especially if anyone was injured. But that is neither here nor there. The law is what it is. And if you have really learned your lesson, then it is a lesson well learned for yourself, those who love you, and everyone with whom you share the road.

That all said, let me just encourage you to play forward in your mind how you think any interaction with a peace officer or heaven forbid, prosecutor or judge, is going to play out for you. Yes, you can legally carry a gun in many circumstances without having a permit to carry so long as you are not a prohibited person. And so far as I know, a misdemeanor DUI does not make you a prohibited person. But it does make you suspect in many people's eyes, especially so long as you are on probation for the offense. This may not be right, or fair, but it is the way it is.

While real problems with LEOs over simple possession are rare, peruse the forum a bit and see how unpleasant it can be on those rare occasions when it does happen. And that is for those with squeaky clean records. Imagine what happens if you actually have to use your gun and there is even the slightest question as to whether that use was justified?

I'm not attempting to dissuade you from exercising your legal rights. I am suggesting that, right or wrong, YOU carry an extra burden over and above what most do, when you choose to carry a gun.

I offer the following suggestions after you play forward in your mind how a cop, prosecutor, or judge, is going to treat you:

1-Get a digital voice recorder and some good rechargeable batteries. Do not carry your gun without the voice recorder on your person and turned on. You won't have time to turn it on if you need to use the gun. Being on probation for DUI your word will be suspect. Have a witness that can't be refuted. Recharge a set of batteries each evening at home while the charged set is in the recorder.

2-Never carry without a cell phone. Should you even have a slight argument with someone while you are (of necessity, open) carrying, be sure to call the police first. Victims call the police. Criminals do not. Be sure you are the victim, not the criminal.

3-Be sure you know Utah and federal gun law inside and out for carrying without a permit. This includes knowing where GFSZs are and avoiding them when afoot. You will get a lot less slack for technical violations than anyone else.

4-Get to know a good lawyer, versed in Utah and federal gun and self-defense laws. Carry his card with your cell phone. Be prepared to pay him for his legal advice.

5-Avoid arguing with cops, even if you are right. Leave that to others, or save it for when you do not carry the burden of being on probation. Learn how to say, "I don't think you are correct, but I don't want any hassles so I do as you request and [leave my gun in the car | leave the area | drop the magazine | etc]".

6-Use an extra measure of care to be sure you are never possibly perceived by any witness (including the ones you don't know are there) as the aggressor. Be courteous in your driving. Be quick to apologize. Be meek in tone and demeanor. Should you ever feel compelled to use your gun in self-defense, if at all possible, give very loud, very clear warning: "BACK OFF!! I SAID NO!! DROP YOUR WEAPON!!"

I do wish you all the best and hope that my suggestions here are received in the spirit of hoping you avoid any and all problems that can be avoided.

Charles
 

jpm84092

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
1,066
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
This is probably something that you will not like to read, but it is Utah law.

Long story short; DUI in Oregon in 2005 and the judge was a hard ass and put me on probation for 60 months. Believe me when I say I learned my lesson. I just have to wait 5 years before I can apply for a permit.

I have consulted my BCI Instructor Course and find that you may apply for expungement of your Oregon DUI 10 years after all penalties, including probation, have been completely served. I expect this is not news you wanted to hear, but it is how things are for you. Thus, you cannot apply for expungement until 10 years after your last day on probation. (And this is true ONLY if you were convicted of misdemeanor DUI - felony DUI is another matter entirely. A felony conviction makes you ineligible to own a firearm under Federal Law - and thus would make "open carry" an additional felony.)

The statements below have been cut and pasted from the BCI Concealed Firearm Instructor Course; slide #70 (for the course taught in November 2010 - thus pretty current)

"Expungement eligibility will be based upon your total history, not what has been reported to BCI. This includes incidents in all states. Some factors which may contribute to a denial are:

10 years – Any alcohol related traffic offense."

Thus, if you were convicted of a traffic violation of Driving Under the Influence of Drugs or Alcohol, your wait time is the 5 years of probation + 10 years before you can apply for expungement of your DUI. And, application for expungement will be denied if you have other felony or gross misdemeanors on your record in any State since your initial conviction on DUI.

I am not trying to discourage you. I am just citing Utah Law on expungement as it applies to a Utah Concealed Firearms Permit. I encourage you to be patient and realize that drinking and driving have terrible consequences; particularly with respect to obtaining a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit.
 

Foxtrot_Gunner

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Salt Lake City
I do not have any felonies, as I would not have been able to purchase my Beretta 96A1 in the first place. This is also a court probation so as long as I'm behaved I don't have to see a probation officer or report to court on a monthly basis (which I have been :) ).

In the duration of my DUI offence I was alone in the vehicle and crashed on a lone, dark road in the middle of nowhere. I am thankful to survive. But I can't tell you how much I think about how this could have turned out different, and how I am very lucky that all I got was 5 years probation.

I thank you guys a lot for sharing knowledge about laws and such about handguns.
 
Last edited:

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
What it means is:

If I decide to take you on as a student, I will present the full Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Course, using the most recent course materials generated by the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification (enhanced by slides from the NRA Pistol Course and slides created by the Utah Bureau of Criminal Investigation for the purpose of teaching the CFP course) - and the course shall be conducted in-person - and will take approximately 4 hours (or longer if there are substantial questions). - And, my fee for conducting such course shall be lunch at the Braza Grill.
I would take you up on this once we move out west (Colorado hopefully this time next year.) Or if you are ever in Atlanta, we have a couple great Brazilian steakhouses.
 
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