Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 55

Thread: The new WRONG expansionism - we do NOT need to "intervene" in Libya's troubles

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787

    The new WRONG expansionism - we do NOT need to "intervene" in Libya's troubles

    Article

    "You're gonna WHAT???" - line from Top Gun, only this time, it's VERY well placed.

    Dear President Obama:

    THIS IS NOT OUR FIGHT - STAY OUT OF IT. Furthermore, as MANY articles have mentioned, prices at the pumps are FAR more the result of manipulations at the exhchange markets than they are of what's going on in the Middle East.

    STAY OUT.

    This is from a veteran, several times over, of the whole area.

    STAY OUT.

    Obama, if you're SO stupid as to even THINK about dipping another toe into that region, I will PERSONALLY seek to flail both your arrogance and your expansionist philosophies in COUNTESS public forums. You will be OWNED by the Internet you falsely purported to be a part of during your campaign. I've been a forum moderator or admin since 1985, That's 26 years and counting. You won't just loose - you'll be ridden out of town on a rail of electrons. FUGHETABOUTIT. If you choose to ignore these warnings, your Presidency will go down in history as one of the worst in history: "Obama - The first truly STUPID president in America's history. His untouchable arrogance, and how it lead our nation to become so embroiled in the Middle East that, for a time, we stopped being a nation unto ourselves."

    I like the title, don't you?

    No? THEN STOP STICKING YOUR NOSE INTO OTHER COUNTRIES' BUSINESSES WHERE IT DOESN'T BELONG!

    We are but one of 200+ countries on our planet. We can help others. We cannot rule over them, and we certainly cannot dictate to them how they should run their own countries, no matter how badly they might do so.

    Please pull your head out of your ass, Mr. President.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Article

    "You're gonna WHAT???" - line from Top Gun, only this time, it's VERY well placed.

    Dear President Obama:

    THIS IS NOT OUR FIGHT - STAY OUT OF IT. Furthermore, as MANY articles have mentioned, prices at the pumps are FAR more the result of manipulations at the exhchange markets than they are of what's going on in the Middle East.

    STAY OUT.

    This is from a veteran, several times over, of the whole area.

    STAY OUT.

    Obama, if you're SO stupid as to even THINK about dipping another toe into that region, I will PERSONALLY seek to flail both your arrogance and your expansionist philosophies in COUNTESS public forums. You will be OWNED by the Internet you falsely purported to be a part of during your campaign. I've been a forum moderator or admin since 1985, That's 26 years and counting. You won't just loose - you'll be ridden out of town on a rail of electrons. FUGHETABOUTIT. If you choose to ignore these warnings, your Presidency will go down in history as one of the worst in history: "Obama - The first truly STUPID president in America's history. His untouchable arrogance, and how it lead our nation to become so embroiled in the Middle East that, for a time, we stopped being a nation unto ourselves."

    I like the title, don't you?

    No? THEN STOP STICKING YOUR NOSE INTO OTHER COUNTRIES' BUSINESSES WHERE IT DOESN'T BELONG!

    We are but one of 200+ countries on our planet. We can help others. We cannot rule over them, and we certainly cannot dictate to them how they should run their own countries, no matter how badly they might do so.

    Please pull your head out of your ass, Mr. President.

    Not only you are you wrong since9, but completely ignorant to boot.

    Clearly had you done your research, you would have come to this realization on your own.




    Just for your information, and to repair the inaccurate statement you have made, the correct commentary is the following:

    Maverick: I'm bringing him in closer Merlin.

    Merlin: You're gonna do what?




    Oh yeah the rest of your post is spot on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by slowfiveoh View Post
    Not only you are you wrong since9, but completely ignorant to boot.

    Clearly had you done your research, you would have come to this realization on your own.




    Just for your information, and to repair the inaccurate statement you have made, the correct commentary is the following:

    Maverick: I'm bringing him in closer Merlin.

    Merlin: You're gonna do what?




    Oh yeah the rest of your post is spot on.
    Nice.

  4. #4
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Terra, Sol
    Posts
    2,779
    While I agree with your sentiment...

    The first truly STUPID president in America's history.
    We have been there for TEN years. So he's hardly the first stupid president. And just one with blood on his hands.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 03-08-2011 at 01:34 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855
    Wrong war. Wrong time. Wrong leadership. Let the EU get off their dead asses and NO FLY Libya. They get the oil, not us. Momar Obooba can send strong notes to his 3rd cousin. That's as far as we should go.

  6. #6
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Herington, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,005
    Sorry fellas but Since9 is right,, that part of the oil is not where we get ours,,it's the EU. And as far as 10 years go,,I'll agree. But do understand why we needed to go into Iraq, and it's my humble opinion we didn't go in hard enough into Afghanistan, and we're paying for it now. Just an old combat troopers observations. NO we do NOT need to mess around in Libya.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Terra, Sol
    Posts
    2,779
    We went in for the WMD's and Bin Laden right?

    That's 0-2 and ten years of the middle class sacrificing family members for lies.


    p.s. Thanks for your service.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    We went in for the WMD's and Bin Laden right?

    That's 0-2 and ten years of the middle class sacrificing family members for lies.


    p.s. Thanks for your service.
    +1 on all counts.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by slowfiveoh View Post
    Not only you are you wrong since9, but completely ignorant to boot.

    Clearly had you done your research, you would have come to this realization on your own.

    That's deep Ogre.

    The title is "The WRONG Expansionism," is there a RIGHT expansionism?

    Imposing a no-fly zone in Libya is not expansionist. Invading Iraq under false pretenses and occupying Iraq is expansionist, well, and a few other things.

    Wait, unless you consider sanctions against Iran expansionist? A no-fly zone is a sanction of sort, not occupying, or invasion.

    The price at the pump has much more to do with wallstreet speculation than Libyan unrest, or whatever the hell it is they are doing over there. I say ramp up oil production in occupied Iraq. Let the Libyans sort out their own crap.

    We have enough systemic issues here in America that needs to be dealt with.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  10. #10
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Article

    If you choose to ignore these warnings, your Presidency will go down in history as one of the worst in history.

    He is already the worst president in our history. I don't think we can really threaten that anymore.
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  11. #11
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    That's deep Ogre.

    The title is "The WRONG Expansionism," is there a RIGHT expansionism?

    I would argue that expanding down to Mexico and bringing them into the union might have been an example of a 'right expansionism' at some point in our not to distant past.

    Currently we don't have the money or resources to do this job properly, and we need to focus on other things, but at one point in time I would have supported such an expansion.

    Just a thought.
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by frommycolddeadhands View Post
    I would argue that expanding down to Mexico and bringing them into the union might have been an example of a 'right expansionism' at some point in our not to distant past.

    Currently we don't have the money or resources to do this job properly, and we need to focus on other things, but at one point in time I would have supported such an expansion.

    Just a thought.
    We may as well expand down into Mexico. Then they won't have a border to jump to work for five bucks an hour twelve hours a day...we are headed to an economy like that anyhow.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  13. #13
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    We may as well expand down into Mexico. Then they won't have a border to jump to work for five bucks an hour twelve hours a day...we are headed to an economy like that anyhow.
    I'm just thinking that if we would just go ahead and absorb Mexico into the USA then at least it'll solve the 'border war' problem. Just one day up and tell them, "Congrats, you are now all US citizens. And you will pay taxes and abide by our laws accordingly..."

    Yay. We just got a new tax base, the FBI and DEA can finally crack down on the drug cartels, we just got a nice long coast line to build more naval bases and ports to ensure we stay the largest naval fleet in the world, and inherited one of the most oil rich lands on the planet.

    Mexicans finally get their coveted citizenship and qualify for the same minimum wage standards that the rest of America does, and we've managed to put a huge dent in the 'undocumented worker' problem because there is no longer and incentive to hire mexicans as they should now be paid min wage like everyone else.

    Happiness ensues. LOL
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by frommycolddeadhands View Post
    I'm just thinking that if we would just go ahead and absorb Mexico... the FBI and DEA can finally crack down on the drug cartels
    LOL!

    Is that how you think it works?
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-10-2011 at 10:55 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923
    Quote Originally Posted by frommycolddeadhands View Post
    He is already the worst president in our history. I don't think we can really threaten that anymore.

    As much as I dislike/disagree with Obama, I have to say that he has come nowhere near earning that title.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  16. #16
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Herington, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,005
    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    We went in for the WMD's and Bin Laden right?

    That's 0-2 and ten years of the middle class sacrificing family members for lies.


    p.s. Thanks for your service.
    And exactly where do you find that it was LIES? I know for FACT that Hussein HAD chemical weapons at the time of Desert Storm. What makes you think he didn't have them afterward? You've been suckin' on the kool-aid way to hard.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

  17. #17
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    And exactly where do you find that it was LIES? I know for FACT that Hussein HAD chemical weapons at the time of Desert Storm. What makes you think he didn't have them afterward? You've been suckin' on the kool-aid way to hard.
    I'll bite.

    Can you link me to where after we invaded Iraq (Iraqi Freedom, or whatever they called it that week) some chemical weapons were found?

    Thank you.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    ....... I know for FACT that Hussein HAD chemical weapons at the time of Desert Storm.......
    Yeah, that's because WE sold them to him.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    Yeah, that's because WE sold them to him.
    SOP for us.

    "Here you go, potentially aggressive nation: enjoy your new weapons!" (360º turn)

    "HEY! What are you doing with those illegal weapons!?!?"

  20. #20
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    LOL!

    Is that how you think it works?
    It sure does, but only if you write "happiness ensues" at the end of a post.

    Otherwise it all goes to heck.
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  21. #21
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'll bite.

    Can you link me to where after we invaded Iraq (Iraqi Freedom, or whatever they called it that week) some chemical weapons were found?

    Thank you.
    http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/...on/dodscud.htm

    This is probably the best source for information following the first gulf war. Basically it boils down to a) we thought Saddam had launched Chemically Weaponized SCUD Missiles at the coalition and at Kuwait during Operation Desert Storm. This proved to be false. Although he did launch SCUDS, none of them had chemical warheads. and b) after operation Desert Storm we found approx 50 SCUD missiles that were outfitted for chemical warfare (sarin and VX nerve gas as well as anthrax and some other nasty suprises.)

    So, in 1991 he definately HAD them, he just didn't use 'em.

    Fast forward to 2001. Saddam claimed that he still had them and refused to let inspectors in. All of our intelligence services, as well as our allies intel services thought he had them.

    We invaded, and I personally have knowledge that WMD components were found, although they weren't put together at the time. BUT for all those nay-sayers who don't want to take my word for it, here is a NY Times article confirming that WMD (chemical weapon) material was indeed found in Iraq.

    Although this wasn't highly publicized for whatever reason, similar articles did appear in other newspapers, and I think it even found a 10 second blip on the news a while back. When we don't find WMD's they talk about it forever and report it on every channel. Find some WMD's and everyone has moved on to other things. Go fig.

    Anyway, heres the NYTimes link. Enjoy: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...7pDf7AZ3RO9qnM
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  22. #22
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    As much as I dislike/disagree with Obama, I have to say that he has come nowhere near earning that title.
    Just out of curiosity, who do you think has been worse so far?
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by frommycolddeadhands View Post
    http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/...on/dodscud.htm

    This is probably the best source for information following the first gulf war. Basically it boils down to a) we thought Saddam had launched Chemically Weaponized SCUD Missiles at the coalition and at Kuwait during Operation Desert Storm. This proved to be false. Although he did launch SCUDS, none of them had chemical warheads. and b) after operation Desert Storm we found approx 50 SCUD missiles that were outfitted for chemical warfare (sarin and VX nerve gas as well as anthrax and some other nasty suprises.)

    So, in 1991 he definately HAD them, he just didn't use 'em.

    Fast forward to 2001. Saddam claimed that he still had them and refused to let inspectors in. All of our intelligence services, as well as our allies intel services thought he had them.

    We invaded, and I personally have knowledge that WMD components were found, although they weren't put together at the time. BUT for all those nay-sayers who don't want to take my word for it, here is a NY Times article confirming that WMD (chemical weapon) material was indeed found in Iraq.

    Although this wasn't highly publicized for whatever reason, similar articles did appear in other newspapers, and I think it even found a 10 second blip on the news a while back. When we don't find WMD's they talk about it forever and report it on every channel. Find some WMD's and everyone has moved on to other things. Go fig.

    Anyway, heres the NYTimes link. Enjoy: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...7pDf7AZ3RO9qnM

    Let's not forget that Saddam actually gassed the Kurds.

    Furthermore, as a OIF I vet, I confirm what you have said. There were indeed components for delivery systems etc. that were found in great working order. I have a CD our commander made after the invasion, and after we redeployed back to garrison, that has 2500 pictures on it. Let me see if I can track it down.

    On it, it has a couple pictures of chemical pod attachments to guided missiles found at Talil Airfield and BIAP.

    In fact, the munitions stockpiles we had found looked to be in awesome shape, and very well kept.

    Hell the only thing that appeared to be run down as hell was BIAP itself.

    If you ever got the opportunity to visit the airstrip, there were several aircraft outside of the terminals that we went exploring in on a patrol. The Antonov on the flight line shocked me with English and Russian on all major control panels.

    I just thought it was interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923
    Quote Originally Posted by frommycolddeadhands View Post
    Just out of curiosity, who do you think has been worse so far?

    It would be hard to give any one president the title of "worst", but in no particular order I would say that Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and Lincoln were all worse than Obama.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  25. #25
    Regular Member frommycolddeadhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Knob Noster, MO
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by slowfiveoh View Post
    Let's not forget that Saddam actually gassed the Kurds.

    Furthermore, as a OIF I vet, I confirm what you have said. There were indeed components for delivery systems etc. that were found in great working order. I have a CD our commander made after the invasion, and after we redeployed back to garrison, that has 2500 pictures on it. Let me see if I can track it down.

    On it, it has a couple pictures of chemical pod attachments to guided missiles found at Talil Airfield and BIAP.

    In fact, the munitions stockpiles we had found looked to be in awesome shape, and very well kept.

    Hell the only thing that appeared to be run down as hell was BIAP itself.

    If you ever got the opportunity to visit the airstrip, there were several aircraft outside of the terminals that we went exploring in on a patrol. The Antonov on the flight line shocked me with English and Russian on all major control panels.

    I just thought it was interesting.
    Yup. I've seen plenty of photos of munitions that have been found/recovered/destroyed. The 'no WMD's in Iraq' is one of those lies that just won't die. Pet peeve of mine.
    God is the one driving this stagecoach, I'm just riding shotgun.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •