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Thread: ARTICLE: You'd be surprised who is packin' heat at your church or even your school

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    Post ARTICLE: You'd be surprised who is packin' heat at your church or even your school

    ARTICLE:

    You'd be surprised who is packin' heat at your local church or even your local school.

    Since 1966, there have at least been 109 shootings at schools, claiming 228 victims; and at least 19 shootings at churches claiming at least 57 victims.[1] Given this trend of violence, many preachers and principals have started packing more than just books in their briefcases. Many are now also armed.

    http://WhyGunControl.blogspot.com

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Wouldn't a principal in a public school who brought a gun to his office in his/her briefcase be in violation of Federal law?

    Do we REALLY want felons and scofflaws running our public schools?

    I mean, they already run our government, and look where that's getting us...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Wouldn't a principal in a public school who brought a gun to his office in his/her briefcase be in violation of Federal law?

    Do we REALLY want felons and scofflaws running our public schools?

    I mean, they already run our government, and look where that's getting us...
    Gun Free School Zone act includes an exemption for people licensed to carry in their state

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Wouldn't a principal in a public school who brought a gun to his office in his/her briefcase be in violation of Federal law?

    Do we REALLY want felons and scofflaws running our public schools?

    I mean, they already run our government, and look where that's getting us...
    Just me sayin' it, but I'd feel a whole bunch better knowing that at least one concealed carry weapon is present at school with a law-abiding citizen in control of the trigger. As per usual Dreamer is in his form. Just because it's a teacher/principle does not necessarily mean that it's a liberal/progressive. Maybe the teacher is also a "sheepdog"
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Just me sayin' it, but I'd feel a whole bunch better knowing that at least one concealed carry weapon is present at school with a law-abiding citizen in control of the trigger. As per usual Dreamer is in his form. Just because it's a teacher/principle does not necessarily mean that it's a liberal/progressive. Maybe the teacher is also a "sheepdog"

    Sorry about any misunderstanding--I forgot to insert the <sarcasm> tag at the end of that post...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 03-11-2011 at 09:30 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Game View Post
    Gun Free School Zone act includes an exemption for people licensed to carry in their state
    This is patently incorrect (in the context of this discussion), and will get you arrested and charged with a felony.

    The "exemption" for in-state permit holders to the federal GFZA only applies to people who are within the "1000 foot zone", NOT to actually being ON school property or in a school building.

    If, for instance you are in Virginia, and you have a VA-issued permit (you don't need to be a resident of the state the school is in--only your PERMIT needs to be issued by the same state) then you can travel within the "1000 foot zone" without violating the law.

    Cite: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922
    18 USC §922(q)(I)(B)(ii):
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
    so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
    political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
    political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
    such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
    political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
    under law to receive the license;
    But even if you have such a permit, it does NOT allow to carry onto school property unless State law specifically permits it (and even then, you can only have it in your vehicle--you may not step out of the car whole on school property, or enter a building).

    A person may also be exempted from the GFSZA if they are traveling under FOPA, and their firearm is unloaded and locked up, per FOPA transport guidelines, even if they do not have a permit, per §§(iii)...

    This law, of course, only applies to K-12 schools. Universities and colleges have their own set of laws which are state-specific, and are NOT included under the Federal GFSZ act...

    Nowhere in the GFSZA (18 USC §922(q)) is there an exemption for Principles, teachers, instructors, or ANYONE ELSE (except LEOs in the performance of their duties)
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    [SIZE=4]This...[size]
    No need to shout, Dreamer.

    ...is patently incorrect (in the context of this discussion), and will get you arrested and charged with a felony. The "exemption" for in-state permit holders to the federal GFZA only applies to people who are within the "1000 foot zone", NOT to actually being ON school property or in a school building.
    This is only partially right. The correct answer is that it may get you arrested and/or charged with a felony, depending on several circumstances:

    1. Whether or not you are caught. Even if "caught," exemptions exist for at least three other circumstances:

    2. Whether or not it's allowed for official, school-sanctioned sport-shooting purposes.

    3. Whether or not it's allowed for official, school-sanctioned demonstration. Many schools here in town have allowed firearms training instructors from either the civilian side or law enforcement to demonstrate basic firearms safety. Of course this consists of little more than "do not touch," "secure the area," "call 911," and "enlist the help of the nearest adult." (I know - I attended one).

    3. Depending on how your state defines "carry." Here in Colorado, the state treats your vehicle as an extension of your home, so with a CHP, you can bring a loaded firearm onto school property, provided it remains inside the vehicle, and if you leave the vehicle, the vehicle is locked and the firearm is inside a closed compartment such as the glovebox. The glovebox need not be locked.

    But even if you have such a permit, it does NOT allow to carry onto school property unless State law specifically permits it (and even then, you can only have it in your vehicle--you may not step out of the car whole on school property, or enter a building).
    Now you're talking. However, this contradicts what you said earlier about never having it on school property at all.

    Nowhere in the GFSZA (18 USC §922(q)) is there an exemption for Principles, teachers, instructors, or ANYONE ELSE (except LEOs in the performance of their duties)
    You're right about this, and it effectively turns our K-12 public schools into Gun Free Zones. We all know how well this strategy worked to reduce or eliminate the carnage at Columbine and Virginia Tech, don't we?

    Churches are a different matter entirely! I routinely attend two churches here in Colorado Springs. My pastor at the smaller church is ecstatic about my carrying in his church. "The more the merrier," according to him. In the larger church, the pastor said, "We won't stop you from concealing," and added that following the events at the New Life Church, most of the ushers are current or former military, and most are carrying concealed. Regardless, there are enough military members in that church, as there are in most churches here in the Springs, that if someone started popping off rounds, they'd quickly be met by a rapidly advancing wall of adrenaline-hopped, hand-to-hand-combat-trained people.

    A perp might get off a couple of rounds, but after that, he'd be sat on for a while. That's assuming he survived the takedown, of course.

    My point is that our children here in our local churches are safe because adults are usually allowed to carry. They're not safe in our local schools because the Federal Government has made them GFZs, which, as we all known, both prevents law-abiding citizens from carrying while simultaneously creating a resistance-free environment for wackos like Cho, Hasan, and Jared to freely commit murder and mayhem.

    Our kids will NEVER be safe until we strike this RIDICULOUS, mentally a$$-backwards 1,000' rule law from the books in its entirety!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    This is patently incorrect (in the context of this discussion), and will get you arrested and charged with a felony.

    The "exemption" for in-state permit holders to the federal GFZA only applies to people who are within the "1000 foot zone", NOT to actually being ON school property or in a school building.
    Actually the exemption to the federal ban above DOES apply to both the school & zone around the school. This federal exemption of course has nothing to do with any state gun ban in or near schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Actually the exemption to the federal ban above DOES apply to both the school & zone around the school. This federal exemption of course has nothing to do with any state gun ban in or near schools.
    Agreed. And for states without a GFSZA, and whose licenses don't meet the standard required by the exemption, you can be 100% legal by state law, yet illegal by federal law.

    For instance, NH licenses don't require any kind of background check, so they dont get the federal GFSZA exemption. Just driving down the wrong street puts you in violation of federal law.

    But as far as state law goes, it's legal to carry concealed, or even OC without a license, on school property and even in school buildings and classrooms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Actually the exemption to the federal ban above DOES apply to both the school & zone around the school. This federal exemption of course has nothing to do with any state gun ban in or near schools.
    Correct. Some states only ban under certain conditions. Michigan allows only open carry in schools, and only if that person has a CPL.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Each state has their own answer to the GFZ problem, and all states have exemptions. (LEO on official business min) It is my understanding there are normally exemptions for "authorized activities" as the authorization comes from the Principal, I suppose it would be very easy for him to authorize himself don't you think?

    At least that is how I understand WA state law...land and property yes, building no, unless "authorized"

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911
    Michigan allows only open carry in schools, and only if that person has a CPL.
    Utah allows carry in schools for anyone with a UT permit.
    I've heard from an instructor who has taught groups of teachers who fully intend on carrying concealed while at work, in the classroom.
    UT hasn't had school shootings.
    WI still has the 1000' state rule (at least, for a little while longer).
    We've had school shootings... by kids too.
    It's not just the over-18 nutcases we should be concerned about.

    Quote Originally Posted by since9
    there are enough military members in that church, as there are in most churches here in the Springs, that if someone started popping off rounds, they'd quickly be met by a rapidly advancing wall of adrenaline-hopped, hand-to-hand-combat-trained people.
    It's a comforting thought.
    But wouldn't it be faster & potentially prevent loss of life & injury if someone near the hypothetical BG shot him?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Just me sayin' it, but I'd feel a whole bunch better knowing that at least one concealed carry weapon is present at school with a law-abiding citizen in control of the trigger. As per usual Dreamer is in his form. Just because it's a teacher/principle does not necessarily mean that it's a liberal/progressive. Maybe the teacher is also a "sheepdog"
    If it's illegal to have a gun on school property, then that one person isn't a 'law-abiding' citzen.
    Last edited by Thoreau; 05-25-2011 at 11:37 AM.

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    Then if there's only criminals left to protect the children from active shooters, let the criminals protect them.

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