WOW 24 views and no replies Did I come at a bad time
Hi Im TA (Twiztid Angel) Im a 35 yo SAHM that homeschools her 2 wonderfully bright kiddos and am new to OCing....I also teach the Defensive Driving Course-Attitudinal Dynamics of Driving aka safe driving for the National Safety Council (court ordered class for tickets resulting from the State Highway Patrol/Sheriffs and Police department) 2 Saturdays out of the month for my local community.
I have a Taurus Judge Defender (yes with pink grips) and a drop leg holster (other holster styles don't fit my wardrobe very well and the DL holster feels better for me) in black.
Please be gentle with me as this is totally a new concept that I just learned that was available to me when I applied for my PP at the Sheriffs office. I have had instruction and passed the CCW test just never applied for my permit. I have been around guns all my life but mostly as a just in sport events such as target shooting.
I came across your wonderful site about 2 weeks ago and have been sending people here every since. I am looking for information on a few issues and would love help in pointing me in the right direction if you would....for the record Hubby does not OC he CC's because he is rather short on control when it comes to stupid people asking dump questions and he might be taken wrong....he doesnt want to take the chance that he might be taken wrong when we all know hes just a big teddy bear....Thank you!!!
Ok now for my questions hehehe
Since I do have the DL holster what is the best way for me to transport my Judge while in my vehicle....I usually have someone in the front seat and was wondering if I could mount a simple holster to my dash ( I drive a Nissan Pathfinder 4x4 Rhino lined with hijacker shocks in case you were wondering lol) for the sole purpose of transport instead of going through the hassle of taking my DL on and off as I am constantly in and out of the vehicle. Would removing my Judge from the DL once in the vehicle be considered brandishing or understandable considering I cant conceal it in the car.
Since I am female my hubby worries about being harassed more by LEO or "concerned citizens" because I might be perceived as being more defenseless and easier to bully (doesn't help Im 4'11 1/4" tall either). Is there anyone here that has had any experiences they would share? Ive searched through I think about every thread for NC in the last few days and found mostly men having problems...see very few females here.
I have looked at some of the threads and its hard to put all the info together (also because some of it has been posted awhile I was worried about it not being up to date or something may have changed) as the events happen is there anywhere I can get a step by step of what to do it stopped and questioned by LEO?
Last edited by Twiztid Angel; 03-08-2011 at 11:26 PM.
WOW 24 views and no replies Did I come at a bad time
First, welcome to OCDO! We're glad to have you here!
As for your questions, there are different answers, and no single right answer IMO. You mostly have to decide for yourself, but I'll give you my opinion.
Car Carry - You can, as you mentioned, attach a holster to your dash. You would want to be careful about where you put it, so that it wouldn't be concealed. I have a box that I've mounted a holster to in my truck, and if I ever get around to getting a card reader I'll post pictures. Alternatively, you can just carry it in your regular holster and place it on the dash in the event that you get pulled. I would suggest making sure people aren't looking, or reholstering below the line of sight for most people outside your vehicle.
I haven't had any major problems OCing, as a 5' 10" guy. You'll notice stares, and you will get questioned about it by people at times. Typical questions are "Is that a real gun?", "Are you a cop?", etc. I have had people ask me about it, and who seemed to be uncomfortable when I told them that I'm not a LEO and no permit is required, but no one who was rude about it. I also haven't had problems with LE, even when I know they saw me carrying. There was one situation at a rest area late at night in which I believe my visible handgun deterred an attack by three men, but there is no way to be sure about that.
As for being stopped by LE, you could get tips at http://www.flexyourrights.org. It's a good jumping off point if nothing else. Next, I would suggest becoming intimately knowledgeable about state laws. There's really no substitute for reading them for yourself. I would also recommend carrying a digital voice/video recorder with you when OCing, if not all the time in case you end up in an encounter.
That being said, remember a few key things:
1. Ask early and often: "Am I being detained?". If the officer says 'yes,' ask why. If 'no,' walk away. If he doesn't answer, start with "Clearly you are detaining me. Why am I being detained? What is your reasonable suspicion?"
2. Do not consent to any searches/seizures. Make your objection very clear. If asked a question such as "Do you mind if I search your car?" or "Can I search your car?", do not answer with a simple 'yes' or 'no.' Clearly state that you do not consent to any searches.
3. In NC, you are not required to ID yourself to law enforcement. I personally won't ID myself without a reason satisfactory to me or a warrant. You need to make your own decision there. (This does not apply if you are driving or performing some activity that requires a license or permission.)
4. Don't answer questions unless you are required. If in doubt, ask the officer if you have to answer the question. This is another good reason to have a recorder.
I can't stress enough, get a voice/video recorder. It could end up saving you in trial. Furthermore, NC is a single party consent state, so you have no obligation to inform the officer that you are recording the conversation.
Out of curiosity, what turned you on to OC? You mention it happening at the Sheriff's Office, so I'd like a little more detail. If a Sheriff's Office is actively informing people about OC in a non-negative, light, I think a lot of us would appreciate it.
Again, welcome to OCDO!
Last edited by sultan62; 03-09-2011 at 12:15 AM.
"They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
It ain't what they call rock and roll
And the Sultans...
Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"
Thank you dear.....I have a simple holster that I had though about attaching with Velcro to the center of my dash so if involved in a accident it wouldn't go flying if I hit the brakes.
Thank you for the link and for the advice.....I do have a MP3 player that has voice record and seen a suggestion here that it might be better than a actual voice recorder because LEO might overlook it as a recording device.....Its a Phillips 8gig small little thing that has a neck lanyard and records very well.
I been watching videos on youtube for OC stops and getting some good info but wasnt sure how much actually applies to here in NC as there is none from NC lol.
I really do appreciate the info and love the site...Thank yall for being so helpful
parent site: http://policehelp.net/rollcall.html
Three selected links (of many I think everyone should read and understand):
Do I have to show ID?
Reasonable suspicion and subsequent detainment:
This is legal advice from a firm that represents police departments in NC. Consider that A: This is only opinion, although it is thoroughly cited and researched opinion, and B: The motives behind the authors. They are not an ACLU type organization out to promote constitutional rights, their aim is to provide law enforcement with an understanding of how to make the law work in THEIR favor.
For those two reasons I place much credence in these articles.
If you fully understand these articles you will be surprisingly (to an LEO) prepared when interacting while OC'ing.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain
I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.
We're not being rude by not replying, these couple guys pretty much covered it. There isn't anything of consequence to add. Just hair-splitting that may start a flame war...
"The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
"Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams
Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.
I've already written a novel about Gatttotp on the other site we know each other from, and with what smith and sultan have covered, thats pretty much all you really need to know.
there are some minor intricacies that I'm sure you'll pick up the more you lurk and post, as we all have a habit of repeating ourselves several times over here. As long as you are comfortable in your knowledge of the law, and can keep a level head with cops, then you'll do fine in just about any interaction.
as for holstering/unholstering your weapon, NC does not have a brandishing clause, so you wouldn't be brandishing at all. Just try and keep it out of sight when you do it - don't be walking into (insert store name here) with your gun in hand, while trying to holster: do it within the confines of your open door, gun side facing into the car. This will give a small amount of privacy as to what you are doing, and keep most of the people unawares of what your doing.
Apart from that, stay safe, and always hit that record button if a cop walks up to you.
Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.
Vice President of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, ECU Chapter
Welcome to the board, I'm not in your area but that's irrelevant. You won't find a lot of women around because there aren't that many. They are out there...but the numbers are few. Hopefully that will change. I took my 2 daughters to the range recently and they talked about it for 2 weeks and want to go again. Their friends are asking if I will take them too.
As far as the legal aspects, you want to do some reading. I would recommend looking for your local legal info and also click on the link in my sig for the New to OC info. I put together a bunch of suggestions, videos, cases, and legal info.
Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI
The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI
"To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788
http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info
Thank you guys for the info...I look forward to the day when I can bring some info to yall.
LOL well it wasn't a sheriff but actually someone else that was there applying for there permit...he shared with me that you could OC in NC...there was a sheriff there that commented that you could be charged with GATTTOTP...he said anyone could say you scared them then you would be charged/arrested and loose your gun and that scared me at first but I found this site and it eased my fears.
Elixin is on another site with me and he posted about GATTTOTP when other lashed out at me with I really should hide my pc instead of showing it to everyone. I had simply asked had anyone there had any problems OCing around NC as there a few on the forum from NC. There were a few that were for it and that included a former Police officer and a few that told me my Judge would not do the job of being a self defense weapon.
I think I'll stick here to questions about OC as yall are much more friendly
Welcome to the forum. I just happened on to the post and from what I have seen you have already been well served with the advice given. You might keep an eye on the posts that indicate what is being done in Raleigh as there are several changes up for discussion since the power shift last fall in the legislature. On that subject much good information is available from Grass Roots NC and they are in the front of the charge to effect the changes that many believe are needed.
Hey you made it to the NC forum
Welcome again to the site. The answers you've received so far cover quite a bit. THe only things I would add would be to make sure that gun is secured in a manner which would lock it in place in case of an accident. I've recently learned that simply sitting it on the passenger seat while driving can be potentially dangerous
Mounting a holster to the dash make work fine, as long as it's secured in such a way that no LEO could mistake it for even remotely concealed.
Other than that, the state AG's office has a pretty decent .pdf file concerning handguns and related laws. Familiarizing yourself with current laws in the state is the key to staying out of trouble.
As for the stares and strange looks....who really cares? You're not carrying for anyone else but yours and your family's protection anyway. Most people are good with it. Most places are good with it as long as you're carrying in accordance to state and local laws. Here and there you may encounter people who are afraid of it, yet don't seem to be so afraid of someone with a gun that they won't mind coming right up to you and bitching about it.
In those cases, let common sense guide you. You're under no obligation to suck up to them just as they are under no obligation to suck up to you when they exercise whichever rights they choose to.
Above all else, never switch guns with your husband lol. Never put in him in the situation where he would have to carry a pink gun in public. That would just be...wrong
Hubby with a pink grip Judge, oh yea!!! stares gollore!!!! Welcome to the forum. In case it wasnt covered before,one more thing. Act normal and dont touch the gun, try NOT to look nervouse, the sheep will feed off your expressions when you carry. As far as the GOTTTAOP or whatever it is. Thats BS they always say that and there has to be several factors involve to be charged.
You can be charged for it, but mostly it's a "tack on" charge if you're found to be criminally using your gun in other ways. Although a cop could theoretically charge you with it as a stand alone charge, the intent is what matters.
In other words, numerous cases have been resolved concerning carrying a firearm. Simply carrying does not constitute criminal activity (unless of course you're carrying it illegally and against provisions set forth in NC law). Therefore, simply carrying a handgun is not criminal activity subject to searches, etc. You can't be (legally) charged with GTTTAOP for simply carrying. There has to be the intent to terrorize others for the charge to stick. Intent can be established in different ways, such as waving your gun around in public, using it to bully others, etc. Without those mitigating factors, the charge is invalid.
Relax, enjoy life, and carry as you see fit within the law.
Thank you guys great info...great people!
As for Hubby carrying my Judge ROFLMFAO....he has his own Taurus 9 (ere a taurus family) that he carries CC. He has been thinking about getting a Judge in the 3" barrel as he was very surprised at the accuracy despite reports from others. We love the personal defense load from Winchester PDX1 it keeps a close pattern at 7, 15 and 21 feet within about 6 inches at the 21 mark.
Another quick question is my Judge exposed enough to be OC ..... is there some guideline that how much of the gun must be seen?
Last edited by Twiztid Angel; 03-09-2011 at 02:10 PM.
I would say that if you have other's in your car, the best place for the gun is in your holster under your direct control.
If you are worried about it possibly being concealed in that location, having a CHP would eliminate that concern.
This concerns and puzzles me. Why not have drivers' ed instructors tell their class "The Law" concerning stops and searches?as a instructor for safe driving classes we are told to inform the class to consent to searches to make there life easier.
You may have something COMPLETELY innocuous in there, maybe a spent casing hidden under a floormat from being at the range. That's going to invite further investigation, including detainment, frisking, running your gun's serial no., justified or not. I would not want the officer(s) searching my car and I'm a teetotaler, and always completely legal.
When we tell them to consent to searches it is purely to make there life simplified not that they HAVE to...just that it makes it easier I don't agree with it but to keep my job I must comply as they routinely send "rats" in to test our knowledge of the information we teach and asses us.
Last edited by Twiztid Angel; 03-09-2011 at 04:05 PM.
"I have to teach what they tell me...the text is determined by the National Safety Council and we are required to teach it the way they instruct us too...since this is for the court this class is required to keep from getting points on your license.
When we tell them to consent to searches it is purely to make there life simplified not that they HAVE to...just that it makes it easier I don't agree with it but to keep my job I must comply as they routinely send "rats" in to test our knowledge of the information we teach and asses us."
No big surprise there. I've worked at a community college too. BTW Have you had a chance to review the video's on "Never talk to the police"? I'm fairly sure they are posted on you- tube but there have been links posted on this forum. It is a lecture by a lawyer to a class of law students and very interesting. Well worth a few minutes to view.