Budget Repair Bill is moving again.

CalicoJack10 said:

Here is the sad fact, no matter what side of this you stand on, you still have to realize what the republicans did the other day. They took an action that was carefully calculated and was apparently nothing more than an attempt to get the dems back into the mix instead of out hiding in another state.

I am not going to say if what they did was right or wrong, but I am glad that someone is finally making an active effort to get things moving in our state. These representatives of the people, that are not doing their jobs need to all be hung out to dry. And I have to say that the ways that they are ALL going about fighting over this is just plain wrong, because both sides have taken the people out of the equation and turned Wisconsin Citizens into nothing more than an excuse to keep fighting with each other.

Also, there is a bigger picture here that people are not seeing, and that is the multi billionaires in the background that are pushing this measure in several states so that they can buy up all of these states power plants and cut pay and benefits for everyone. Those that are fighting, and those that are protesting, should all realize that this is about ALL citizens, and not just themselves.

I do agree that there are far too many out of staters that are involved in this mess, as if we don't have enough problems trying to resolve this without professional protesters mucking up the mix. And if you don't believe me, just look at the fact that that $hit bag michael moore had to rush out here and get his media attention. You know he always puts a positive spin on the things he reports on.

We really do need to stop all this petty bickering between ourselves and sit down like adults to try and get this resolved. I sincerely believe that if we do not man up and take some hits on both sides of the argument, then it wont be long before some nut job will decide that they can be a hero and end up hurting a lot of innocent people. As it is this protest is bringing in people that have been slowly, but progressively getting more violent.

I don't think the media has any positive influence on this matter and I don't think this is all Walker either.

$0.02:dude:

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Well put.. I have to Agree, let's keep this in house.

metalman383 said:

To range rat and Phred. I just want to say, discuissions here in no way reflect my feelings about you guys personally. I would still stand buy your side on issues we agree. This topic is just soo heated and people feel very strongly one way or another, it is hard to not make it feel personal.
I have some questions about what this Collective Bargaining has stripped from the teachers. The way it sounds, teachers will now be working unprotected, with hazzardous waste on a daily basis. Sounds also like the state will have to build huge tent cities, because as soon as the bill was signed, their houses were instantly forclosed on. Since wages were not affected, what does it affect besides dealing with sick days, vacation days, and giving the teachers the option to not be in the union?

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OK, so you would stand buy my side on issues we agree on, ok now were getting some wear, I like a Good debate,
shall we continue,Judgeing from this last post [ in my opinion my you ] there appears to be a couple of cheap shots ?

No Mr. Metalman, Teacher do not work with Hazzardous waste. Maybe you got that mix up with what they serve in the cafeteria. If you are makeing refence to Safety,[ like I stated in my past post,] wouldn't you concider a student
punching you in the face safety problem ? Or how about comeing home from work, to find out that your WIFE, who is a teacher was Rape. [or Gang Rape for that matter ] Or a Student High on PCP walks into his or hers class room, pulls a gun an Shoots the teacher..

But thats ok, those sorry over payed teachers can buy there own Metal detector, [ for guns & knifes ] or pay for there own LEO to walk around the halls, break up fights, stop attacks..

Back in the 80s,an90s this was happening just about on a daily bassess, It Wasn't till they got a strong Collective Bargaining Rights, did this problem start to be address,an something started to done about it..

This is One mind you just one of the many problems that Collective Bargaining Rights deal with, Now keep in Mind
with there Bargaining rights gone, these saft guards can be pulled under the lack of Money bull%$#@.

I realy don't what to get into the huge tent cities, of your post right at this time, But i'll be back in Four days to follow up on this fun time were haveing. You See this old hippie still works for a liveing an I still have Seven more Weeks of the 3rd shift to do.

Mr. Phred he's all yours, AS they use to say " Class Is In Order. "

range rat said:

OK, so you would stand buy my side on issues we agree on, ok now were getting some wear, I like a Good debate,
shall we continue,Judgeing from this last post [ in my opinion my you ] there appears to be a couple of cheap shots ?

No Mr. Metalman, Teacher do not work with Hazzardous waste. Maybe you got that mix up with what they serve in the cafeteria. If you are makeing refence to Safety,[ like I stated in my past post,] wouldn't you concider a student
punching you in the face safety problem ? Or how about comeing home from work, to find out that your WIFE, who is a teacher was Rape. [or Gang Rape for that matter ] Or a Student High on PCP walks into his or hers class room, pulls a gun an Shoots the teacher..

But thats ok, those sorry over payed teachers can buy there own Metal detector, [ for guns & knifes ] or pay for there own LEO to walk around the halls, break up fights, stop attacks..

Back in the 80s,an90s this was happening just about on a daily bassess, It Wasn't till they got a strong Collective Bargaining Rights, did this problem start to be address,an something started to done about it..

This is One mind you just one of the many problems that Collective Bargaining Rights deal with, Now keep in Mind
with there Bargaining rights gone, these saft guards can be pulled under the lack of Money bull%$#@.

I realy don't what to get into the huge tent cities, of your post right at this time, But i'll be back in Four days to follow up on this fun time were haveing. You See this old hippie still works for a liveing an I still have Seven more Weeks of the 3rd shift to do.

Mr. Phred he's all yours, AS they use to say " Class Is In Order. "

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Oh my, the spelling and grammar mess of your post is epic. Let's hope this isnt the result of a Wisconsin education. Otherwise, our problems run much deeper than CBA rights.
Teachers don't typically handle hazardous waste. I agree, at least AFAIK. Beyond that, you didnt really post anything that was factual or truthful.

Happening on a daily basis? There must be many, hundreds...thousands even, examples of Wisconsin teachers being punched, shot and gang raped in the classroom then. Please point them out to me.
CBA rights for Wisconsin public employees have been in place since 1959. If you are going to debate, do so with points you can support and based in fact.

BTW, it's "Class is in session."

1FASTC4 said:

Oh my, the spelling and grammar mess of your post is epic. Let's hope this isnt the result of a Wisconsin education. Otherwise, our problems run much deeper than CBA rights.
Teachers don't typically handle hazardous waste. I agree, at least AFAIK. Beyond that, you didnt really post anything that was factual or truthful.

Happening on a daily basis? There must be many, hundreds...thousands even, examples of Wisconsin teachers being punched, shot and gang raped in the classroom then. Please point them out to me.
CBA rights for Wisconsin public employees have been in place since 1959. If you are going to debate, do so with points you can support and based in fact.

BTW, it's "Class is in session."

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I normally do not agree with 1FAST but on this special occasion I have to.

1FASTC4 said:

Oh my, the spelling and grammar mess of your post is epic. Let's hope this isnt the result of a Wisconsin education. Otherwise, our problems run much deeper than CBA rights.
Teachers don't typically handle hazardous waste. I agree, at least AFAIK. Beyond that, you didnt really post anything that was factual or truthful.

Happening on a daily basis? There must be many, hundreds...thousands even, examples of Wisconsin teachers being punched, shot and gang raped in the classroom then. Please point them out to me.
CBA rights for Wisconsin public employees have been in place since 1959. If you are going to debate, do so with points you can support and based in fact.

BTW, it's "Class is in session."

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I normally do not agree with 1FAST but on this special occasion I have to. When you see that thin wavy red line under your words it mean they are not grammatically correct.

1FASTC4 said:

Oh my, the spelling and grammar mess of your post is epic. Let's hope this isnt the result of a Wisconsin education. Otherwise, our problems run much deeper than CBA rights.
Teachers don't typically handle hazardous waste. I agree, at least AFAIK. Beyond that, you didnt really post anything that was factual or truthful.

Happening on a daily basis? There must be many, hundreds...thousands even, examples of Wisconsin teachers being punched, shot and gang raped in the classroom then. Please point them out to me.
CBA rights for Wisconsin public employees have been in place since 1959. If you are going to debate, do so with points you can support and based in fact.

BTW, it's "Class is in session."

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Belittling another, how typical.

As a science teacher, I routinely handled hazardous waste. And, I had frequently worked with hazardous people. When I write my memoirs, I'll give you a copy.

Numbers, we all like numbers. Let's say a teacher works 56 /wk (my low end number). Given that a "work week is 5 days, that's an average of 11.2 hrs/day. In my former district, a teacher worked for 185 days plus two days of parent conferences that were contractual but unpaid. If I use the 185 days at 11.2 hrs/day, that's 2072 hrs, then plus the 16 hrs for P-T Conf. for a total of 2088 hrs per year. A normal work year recognized by the government is 2080 hrs (52 wks x 40 hrs/wk). As teachers, there was never any paid "overtime". In most jobs, there is some paid vacation during the 2080 hrs. And, depending on the job and length of employment, a person could have several weeks of vacation per year. If you are self-employed, you chose your own length of vacation and plan accordingly. Typically, teachers get 3 days of paid vacation -Memorial Day, Labor Day and Thanksgiving You do the math. Whose work year is "longer"? I see it as neither. It is just a different distribution, similar to deferred compensation.

For most of my "summers off", I spent my time and money going back to school, to better myself as a teacher so I could also provide a better learning experience for my students. I was somewhat compensated for that commitment to learning. I have a both a Bachelor's degree and a Masters degree with over 40 graduate credits beyond the Masters. Obviously I moved up in salary from both experience and commitment to self-improvement.

I am not crying "poor me". I knew what I was in for when I signed up to be a teacher. Believe it or not, in some countries, teachers are highly respected and their vocation is considered a "service to their country". Obviously, not here. However, there is a greater purpose in teaching than getting rich. Teaching is not a job, it is a way of life, something that many of you cannot recognize nor respect.

When I started teaching, sex discrimination was rampant. First of all, since many teachers were women and boards of education were men, the salaries and compensation were based on "what a woman should earn" in those days. Pregnant women were not allowed to teach once they began to "show". They had to resign and if a job open up after the birth of the baby, they had to reapply for that job. The teachers unions fought on the local, state and national levels to reverse that kind of discrimination. Now, there are laws to prevent such "miscarriages" of "all are created equal".

Believe it or not, the members of teachers unions worked with the local school boards to establish calendars, scheduling, training, evaluation and supervision systems, curriculum, etc because the school boards and sometimes administration had no clue of what was going on in the classroom. Teachers worked with other teachers willingly and cooperatively because there wasn't a competition amongst themselves. They supported each other because they didn't have to fight each other for position.

That representation of teachers has been severely compromised. What have the teachers lost? You should know that you never fully realize what you lost until you first lose it. But, I can say this. Expect the educational system to go downhill from now on. Some of you just do not care.

I do not hold a grudge on any of the several thousand students, even the ones who caused the most trouble, that I had during my career. Eventually, they grew up. I will try very hard to not hold a grudge on the students in "this classroom". If I can, I will even support your business with my deferred compensation.

Class is over for me on this one. I am one retired public employee who also carries a gun and is working damn hard for Constitutional Carry. If there is any indication of my conviction, let this thread and other threads that I have participated in be that proof. Let's just leave it at that.

phred said:

Belittling another, how typical.

As a science teacher, I routinely handled hazardous waste. And, I had frequently worked with hazardous people. When I write my memoirs, I'll give you a copy.

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You need a new playbook. Your single play, whine about "belittling others" is geting tired.

In fact, with your back seat moderating, you said " Attack the post, not the person writing it."

I said, "...the spelling and grammar mess of your POST is epic." This is exactly what you wanted, yet here you are crying again.

Of course, you COULD actually just make some points about the discussion instead of deflecting the thread by raising tertiary issues.

As far as the hazardous waste thing goes, I said teachers don't TYPICALLY handle hazardous waste, AFAIK. Most teachers aren't science teachers so they don't TYPICALLY handle hazardous waste. Of course, you would know better than I if teachers TYPICALLY handle hazarous waste; that's why I said "AFAIK". Sadly, if I'm wrong, this negates the one correct point that range rat made.

phred said:

That representation of teachers has been severely compromised. .

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I enjoyed reading your entire post, it was very imformative, thanks.

Now, how has teacher representation been compromised?
The union has been limited to disallow it from negotiating pay increases beyond the rate of inflation. In these tough times, do you think this is unreasonable?

Without a strong educational system, k - 12, tech schools and universities ... employers will not locate here because of a lack of qualified workers. You can kiss good paying, family supporting, middleclass private sector jobs goodbye!

Peacekeeper said:

You can kiss good paying, family supporting, middleclass private sector jobs goodbye!

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You mean there are still some left?

People are soo focused on one segment of this bill.

Many people on the edge stand to loose badgercare ... including farmers and lower paid single people.

People entering nursing homes may no longer qualify for medicade assistance.

Scott Walker wants the power to sell state owned power plants to anyone he chooses and for any price. Then the taxpayers ... you and me ... would be forced to pay what the new owner wants for this power ... remember the Koch brothers!

Time to look at the totality of the issue!

phred said:

Belittling another, how typical.

As a science teacher, I routinely handled hazardous waste. And, I had frequently worked with hazardous people. When I write my memoirs, I'll give you a copy.

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Cool...I like reading short stories:dude:.

Peacekeeper said:

Without a strong educational system, k - 12, tech schools and universities ... employers will not locate here because of a lack of qualified workers. You can kiss good paying, family supporting, middleclass private sector jobs goodbye!

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Then it's a damn good thing that the system is about to be overhauled...now isn't it???

Peacekeeper said:

People are soo focused on one segment of this bill.

Many people on the edge stand to loose badgercare ... including farmers and lower paid single people.

People entering nursing homes may no longer qualify for medicade assistance.

Scott Walker wants the power to sell state owned power plants to anyone he chooses and for any price. Then the taxpayers ... you and me ... would be forced to pay what the new owner wants for this power ... remember the Koch brothers!

Time to look at the totality of the issue!

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I think that someone has forgotten that it's the consumer(us), that sets the price of goods & services in this nation. Perhaps if you would have been in class that day, instead of protesting something; your naked ineptness wouldn't be showing :banghead:...

Lurchiron said:

Then it's a damn good thing that the system is about to be overhauled...now isn't it???

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Overhauled? ... or do you mean decimated?

Who's going to teach organic chemistry ... the national guard?

Lurchiron said:

I think that someone has forgoten that it's the consumer(us), that sets the price of goods & services in this nation. Perhaps if you would have been in class that day, instead of protesting something; your naked ineptness wouldn't be showing :banghead:...

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Um ... I work with murders, armed robbers and other assorted criminals. I protest on my own time before work and on my days off ... including this past saturday.

And just so you understand ... I AM A CONSUMER AND A TAXPAYER!

Peacekeeper said:

Overhauled? ... or do you mean decimated?

Who's going to teach organic chemistry ... the national guard?

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I already know how to make Kool-Aid; and espescially know how to NOT drink it!!!

Dang ... this thread is entertaining!

Peacekeeper said:

Overhauled? ... or do you mean decimated?

Who's going to teach organic chemistry ... the national guard?

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Hmm did a bunch of chemistry teachers lose their jobs?