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Thread: CCW permit

  1. #1
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    CCW permit

    Just applied for my ccw permit and was told by a Leo that I would be hammered if I wore my weapon in a holster uncovered.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    First off, don't ask a police officer for legal advice. Sadly, a significant number of them do not know the laws they are sworn to enforce.

    Second, welcome to OCDO and the Mississippi sub-forum. Take a look at the last page or two of threads, there has been some good discussion on the ins and outs of OC in MS.

    Third, there's some uncertainty on exactly which laws (or lack of laws) apply to OC. I've tried to summarize the issue before - maybe this will help you. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1437380

    Given the lack of actual legal knowledge among some LEOs, it is entirely possible you will get "hammered" for OCing, depending on when and where you do it. But regardless of whether OC is viewed as "concealed in part" (see link above), if you are on your own property or in your car, or you have your MS concealed carry license, you're covered legally.
    Last edited by 4angrybadgers; 03-10-2011 at 04:40 PM.

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    +1

    "Hammered," yes, it does happen. I'm sure most of Mississippi isn't like that. If LEOs push, don't push back. Physical resistance is not what we're about. Knowing, stating, and protecting your rights verbally is the best way.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    +1

    "Hammered," yes, it does happen. I'm sure most of Mississippi isn't like that. If LEOs push, don't push back. Physical resistance is not what we're about. Knowing, stating, and protecting your rights verbally is the best way.
    ++ Don't fight if an officer wrongly detains arrests you - you'll end up the loser. The time to fight back is after the encounter, and you can file a complaint, lawsuit, etc.

    There have been some good discussions in other parts of OCDO about how to verbally respond to an unlawful detainment (not complying, but not resisting). It's worth reading.

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    Mississippi does not issue CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) permits.

    Mississippi issues Firearm Permits, follow the link and scroll down to see one, also wouldn't hurt to read the entire document - twice.


    With a permit, you can legally carry either concealed or openly anywhere that is not prohibited, and you can switch from one mode to another w/o breaking the law. Do your research on prohibited areas, ignorance of the law is no excuse for both LACs and LEOs.

    If you do get stopped or detained, do not automatically assume it is because you are carrying. Much more of this subject is on another thread.

    Last but not least; Thanks for realizing it is your responsibility to protect yourself, LEOs are not bodyguards.

    EDIT: I re-read my post and I could see where it may sound like I am being 'nit-picky' about the CCW vs Firearm Permit, I know what you meant. The reason I like to specify is I don't want people (both LEOs and LACs) to think the permit requires CC only.
    Last edited by DeputySheriff; 03-12-2011 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Addition to post.

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    opencarry

    I dont know what part of mississippi your live in.I live in gulfport and open carry a lot.I have deen in places eating when police were eating they saw my gun but they did not say anythang to me
    Last edited by robbyw; 03-12-2011 at 03:40 PM. Reason: gun misspeled

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    Thanks for the replies and I live in the Meridian area.

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    Once you get your "Firearm Permit", remember it carries great responsibility. Keep your head up, and walk slowly. Remember, with the permit it is legal to CC as well as OC in MS. If you are stopped, be polite, but never let anyone tell you they know better than you. They don't.
    Death is lighter than a feather.
    Duty heavier than a mountain.

    - John Steakley

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gohogs1 View Post
    Thanks for the replies and I live in the Meridian area.
    Me too.... Marion..

    I used to OC all over without a CWP, but now I have one and just "present it" when asked.

    LCSO is pretty cool and knowlegeable.
    MPD is not as much so.
    Marion guys are 50/50.

    Don't get upset if you are scrutinized.
    Offer your CWP.
    "SUGGEST" that the firearm is safest if left right there in holster instead of removing it.
    DO NOT TOUCH IT IF STOPPED.... keep hands AWAY from it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member MSRebel54's Avatar
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    Yes, everyone is right. LEO's are not always the brightest bulb in the chandelier. People might not agree, but I may ask him to cite the SPECIFIC MS code he is accusing me of violating. If he has half a brain, he will say "carrying a concealed weapon, MS code 97-37-1"

    At which time, I will point to my holstered gun on my side, and say, "so you are saying THIS is a concealed weapon?" And of course he'll say yes. In that case just say, "If it's concealed, then I have a license to conceal it from the state of MS", and show him your firearms permit.

    Officer, YOU'RE the one that said it was concealed, and I've proved to you that I'm legally able to carry a concealed weapon, so what's the problem? He'll probably go chat on the radio or cell phone for a while and come back and say, "have a good day".

    I actually had this conversation with a Grenada Co. Deputy. That's just the gist, the actual conversation is too long to post.

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    Regular Member MSRebel54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gohogs1 View Post
    Just applied for my ccw permit and was told by a Leo that I would be hammered if I wore my weapon in a holster uncovered.
    He may have meant that unless you know the law EXTENSIVELY, that you would be constantly harassed. So my suggestion would be to get to know the law.....EXTENSIVELY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MedicineMan View Post
    Me too.... Marion..

    I used to OC all over without a CWP, but now I have one and just "present it" when asked.

    LCSO is pretty cool and knowlegeable.
    MPD is not as much so.
    Marion guys are 50/50.

    Don't get upset if you are scrutinized.
    Offer your CWP.
    "SUGGEST" that the firearm is safest if left right there in holster instead of removing it.
    DO NOT TOUCH IT IF STOPPED.... keep hands AWAY from it.
    ARG! In MS there is no CWP, Concealed Weapons Permit! The permit is ONLY for pistols and stun guns. It does not allow carrying concealed any other weapons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSRebel54 View Post
    ..snip...If he has half a brain, he will say "carrying a concealed weapon, MS code 97-37-1".
    Do you really expect every cop to memorize every single section number and it's function in the Mississippi code? It's reasonable to expect them to be able to access immediately (since the all have computers) and know their way around it fairly well, but I bet not one person in the state has memorized the entire state code.
    Last edited by Q-Tip; 04-13-2011 at 11:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q-Tip View Post
    Do you really expect every cop to memorize every single section number and it's function in the Mississippi code? It's reasonable to expect them to be able to access immediately (since the all have computers) and know their way around it fairly well, but I bet not one person in the state has memorized the entire state code.
    They should have a decent understanding and generally know 97, crimes, and pertinent parts of 99, criminal procedure. I do not expect them to know anything about the alcohol laws unless it appears in 97, same for corporate law and the other myriad chapters. But, if they don't know if something is a crime, not necessarily the gory details of the code, something is wrong. I expect them to know carrying a concealed weapon is a crime, not to invent other laws and think carrying unconcealed weapons is a crime or carrying any blade a crime. I expect them to know that if someone runs down main street naked as a bluejay a crime has probably been commit-ed, but not necessarily that it must be willfully and lewdly or that others must be present.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q-Tip View Post
    Do you really expect every cop to memorize every single section number and it's function in the Mississippi code?
    If the LEO is going to enforce a law, then he MUST know what the law is. Otherwise he should default to liberty until he does KNOW the law. If a person is not harming another then there is no reason to intervene in that persons life unles the LEO KNOWS there is a crime occurring.

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    I agree with Daylen's application of it. But really? Know the exactly code number of the law they're enforcing? If a cop walks by an assault I would hope he doesn't take the time to find what code section that makes assault illegal before stopping the guy.

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    Regular Member MSRebel54's Avatar
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    If they write you a ticket, they must put the exact MS code you violated on that ticket. How would they know what to put if they hadn't done it a hundred times before?

    If they just arrest you, and don't write you a ticket, they must know that you are violating either a federal or state law, and I don't expect them to know the federal ones, the code that is, but I DO expect them to know what Mississippi code you have violated. "Because I said so" is not a good reason. When it gets to court, you may not have violated any code at all, and then he's in a heap o' trouble. [sometimes].

    So YES, they do know that if they ticket or arrest you, they HAVE to charge you with with violation of MS code. Sure, no cop can remember ALL the MS code, that's what the computer is for. But you would be surprised at how much they DO know. I have sparred with a Lt. in Oxford on the MS code, and I was surprised at how well versed he was in it. As he was with me. And you might say well, that was a Lt. and he might be knowledgeable, but typically rookies don't know. They don't know AS much, that's for sure, but again, that's what the computer and the radio is for.

    I stand by my statement to ASK them to quote the specific MS code they are accusing me of violating. "Because I said so" just ain't good enough, in my book , or in a court of law.

    Now, if you get out in rural "Mis-sippy" and Bubba arrests you, well I ain't gonna go there, cause I don't know what might happen. He's probably going to ignore you, or take you in because HE thinks you did wrong, and he could care less about the MS code. "Let my boss, or the judge figure it out" And I'm not trying to be crass, but in places like Oxford, you BEST have your ducks in a row. Cause there's about one lawyer for every three people.

    Anyway, there's no harm in ASKING them to cite what code you have violated, even if they don't know.
    Last edited by MSRebel54; 04-14-2011 at 03:10 AM. Reason: grammar

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    CCW permit

    I have had my firearms permit for 10 years. I have carried open and concealed with only some minor problems, such as a store manager being nervous, and asking me not to display my weapon in the store. I have no problem covering it with my shirt. I usually wear my private investigator badge next to my holster. This keeps the average person from getting upset or nervous when they encounter me in public. Most of the time I carry concealed. I have open carried with no problems from LEO's even when they see my weapon. I was asked several years ago, down on the gulf coast (GulfPort), for my permit by the local PD. I was releaved of my weapon, after I let them know it was loaded with a round chambered. The officer unloaded my weapon, asked for my permit and ID. I gave him both of my firearm permits, my drivers license, and my military ID card. I was told to have a great day and that my weapon was on the front seat of my vehicle. I was then on my way to have a great day. Follow the rules and be curtious and you will be fine.

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    So, the LEO just helped himself to your weapon? Did he even ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    So, the LEO just helped himself to your weapon? Did he even ask?
    So I'm not the only one highly bothered by that incident? Being disarmed and a LEO taking my firearm just to check a permit which isn't really needed... I'd hardly say no problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    So I'm not the only one highly bothered by that incident? Being disarmed and a LEO taking my firearm just to check a permit which isn't really needed... I'd hardly say no problem.
    Don't shoot the messenger but, guys ya'll be very careful if you refuse to relinquish your weapon to an officer if he or she asks for it. Officer safety goes a long way in court and if that officer has reasonable articulable suspicion that he or anyone around him has been, is currently or may later be in danger or any laws has, is or about to be broken by you carrying a gun, the law and courts are on his side, and he doesn't have to tell you his reasons.
    All he needs is probable cause or reasonable articulable suspicion to ask you for your weapon and on the side of a road with an LEO isn't the place for a debate... You may never know what his reasons are. Like I say, don't shoot the messenger but please keep this in mind. Complaints against the LEO can be filed later and you get to go on about your business.

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    I think most people know the difference between a request and an order. When asked to give something, it sounds like a request. I'm sure if the officer wanted the weapon bad enough they would take without asking. Why ask in the first place? If asked to search my car, my answer would be "no" or "I don't give consent to seach." If asked to hand over my weapon, my answer should be...

    DS, what should the answer be when asked?
    Last edited by DCKilla; 04-17-2011 at 10:30 AM.

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    Regular Member MSRebel54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    I think most people know the difference between a request and an order. When asked to give something, it sounds like a request. I'm sure if the officer wanted the weapon bad enough they would take without asking. Why ask in the first place? If asked to search my car, my answer would be "no" or "I don't give consent to seach." If asked to hand over my weapon, my answer should be...

    DS, what should the answer be when asked?
    I'm eagerly awaiting that answer myself.

    How would HE like it if I said please hand over your weapon, so I can have the advantage? Probably wouldn't happen. Oh wait, I get it, He's the cop, and I'm the..whatever.

    DS, we hire you to act in our stead, not to dominate us. Your job is 'peace officer' not law enforcer. If I haven't harmed anyone nor their property, or can't be considered by reasonable people to be ABOUT to harm anyone or their property, then you have no business accosting me at all.

    Unless you see an immanent threat of danger to persons or property, OR there has been a complaint filed by an ACTUAL person, not the fictitious "State of Mississippi", then according to the oath you swore, you should pretty much leave people alone. In other words, if you're true to your oath, that you swore to God to uphold, you'll be a peace officer, and not a 'law enforcer'.

  24. #24
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSRebel54 View Post
    I'm eagerly awaiting that answer myself.

    How would HE like it if I said please hand over your weapon, so I can have the advantage? Probably wouldn't happen. Oh wait, I get it, He's the cop, and I'm the..whatever.

    DS, we hire you to act in our stead, not to dominate us. Your job is 'peace officer' not law enforcer. If I haven't harmed anyone nor their property, or can't be considered by reasonable people to be ABOUT to harm anyone or their property, then you have no business accosting me at all.

    Unless you see an immanent threat of danger to persons or property, OR there has been a complaint filed by an ACTUAL person, not the fictitious "State of Mississippi", then according to the oath you swore, you should pretty much leave people alone. In other words, if you're true to your oath, that you swore to God to uphold, you'll be a peace officer, and not a 'law enforcer'.
    DS is a respected member of OCDO. Please, do not back him into a corner like this. I don't like to be told how to do my job. Also, I'm sure most people here feel the same way. I feel your fustration. But we need to give him the same respect as any OCDO member.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputySheriff View Post
    Don't shoot the messenger but, guys ya'll be very careful if you refuse to relinquish your weapon to an officer if he or she asks for it. Officer safety goes a long way in court and if that officer has reasonable articulable suspicion that he or anyone around him has been, is currently or may later be in danger or any laws has, is or about to be broken by you carrying a gun, the law and courts are on his side, and he doesn't have to tell you his reasons.
    All he needs is probable cause or reasonable articulable suspicion to ask you for your weapon and on the side of a road with an LEO isn't the place for a debate... You may never know what his reasons are. Like I say, don't shoot the messenger but please keep this in mind. Complaints against the LEO can be filed later and you get to go on about your business.
    I'm not shooting anyone unless they are an immediate threat to my life or limb.

    I didn't say I would resist or advocate resisting an officer disarming me. I simply said that an officer doing so while asking for a permit that he really doesn't have much business asking for in the first place is a problem.

    First, if stopped I would not touch the weapon or even bring my hands around it. I'm not going to even get close to giving the officer a reason to shoot me. Also, if he violates my rights as opposed to me relinquishing them, by him disarming me, now I can go to a court and precedence is more on my side. I will not voluntarily give up protected rights, for if I do a court will not give it back.

    "Officer safety" trumping citizen safety and protected rights IS a problem.

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