how to educate the sheep?

Today I was discussing with somebody quite casually the search and seizure laws as well as open carry and carrying of knifes etc when I started to tell this person about state/federal law and the constituion she immediately told me I was a moron/idiot, because knives can't be longer than the length of your palm and how fixed blade knives can only be carried by authorized LEO/armed forces. and refused to accept anything otherwise, even when I quoted california pc 653k and told her that her legal advice was incorrect. She responded by saying this is what she heard from her boyfriend who is in the marines and how a marine would know about the law more than a piece of paper or the internet. Then when we discussed illegal search and seizure she said denying a search automatically gives police probable cause for a search, and that again her boyfriend was a marine and knows the law better than me, quote "some stupid kid that is internet educated". And told me I was to young to carry a knife legally and how LEO would take my knie away or put me and jail or call my mommy. Then proceeded to shout profanity at me and other childish things. All in all more stuborn than talking to a christian that never read the bible and starts quoting bible verses.

My question is why do people believe this propganda and bs? How do we educate the mass public. How do we educate thees people living in this country and state on their rights and the laws and get all of this ridiculous hearsay out of society?

Unfortunately it starts at a very young age now.

The indoctrination of our youth in public schools to not question the authority of the state or think critically about any issue.

Some are a lost cause.

hgreen said:

Unfortunately it starts at a very young age now.

The indoctrination of our youth in public schools to not question the authority of the state or think critically about any issue.

Some are a lost cause.

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Well sir id like to let you know, I'm only 16 myself and I've never felt or been like that. And I've been subject to as much propoganda as anyone else..

Ramirez: Why does the sun come up? Or are the stars just pin holes in the curtain of night, who knows? What I do know is that because you were born different, men will fear you... try to drive you away like the people of your village.

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Seriously. The "somebody" you mention is a moron. Beyond help. Save your soul for human beings with at least a little curiosity and/or an open mind.

HandyHamlet said:

Ramirez: Why does the sun come up? Or are the stars just pin holes in the curtain of night, who knows? What I do know is that because you were born different, men will fear you... try to drive you away like the people of your village.

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That made the most sense to me than anything else I've heard/seen in the last 5 years.

Thank you very much, HandyHamlet.

Would've never remembered the highlander

realityfatality said:

My question is why do people believe this propganda and bs? How do we educate the mass public. How do we educate thees people living in this country and state on their rights and the laws and get all of this ridiculous hearsay out of society?

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There's always the Socratic method. "What makes you believe a Marine would be well educated in the law? Does a marine need to know about the law when he will be serving overseas? What makes you think one cannot learn facts from the internet? Are there any facts on the internet? Doesn't the second amendment guarantee that the right to bear arms, such as a knife, cannot be infringed upon? Does the second amendment mention age?"

You could also show her leginfo.ca.gov, show her how it is from the Californian government, and show her how a search for her law doesn't exist.

It's hard to entirely remove yourself from propaganda. Watch any mainstream media source and it is propaganda in one form or another. I'm not sure how to educate the masses. Take away mindless media such as 95% of television programming and get people to read would be a good start.

bigtoe416 said:

There's always the Socratic method. "What makes you believe a Marine would be well educated in the law? Does a marine need to know about the law when he will be serving overseas? What makes you think one cannot learn facts from the internet? Are there any facts on the internet? Doesn't the second amendment guarantee that the right to bear arms, such as a knife, cannot be infringed upon? Does the second amendment mention age?"

You could also show her leginfo.ca.gov, show her how it is from the Californian government, and show her how a search for her law doesn't exist.

It's hard to entirely remove yourself from propaganda. Watch any mainstream media source and it is propaganda in one form or another. I'm not sure how to educate the masses. Take away mindless media such as 95% of television programming and get people to read would be a good start.

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I LITERALLY did all of the above. The page I showed her was leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html. it was completely disregarded.

realityfatality said:

I LITERALLY did all of the above. The page I showed her was leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html. it was completely disregarded.

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Do not waste any more time on that ignorant person.

Don't confuse her with facts. She has already make up her mind.
You would do better talking to a fence post.

Gundude said:

Don't confuse her with facts. She has already make up her mind.
You would do better talking to a fence post.

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Yeah I figured that. I ceased contact with that individual but during the conversation I discovered a majority of the individuals around us believed the same thing. But honestly I feel bad, the only person losing out by being misinformed on the law is her and others she spreads the word too.

Use artwork: http://www.a-human-right.com/

cato said:

Use artwork: http://www.a-human-right.com/

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Excellent link... I'm putting this on my FaceBook page...

Excellent link!

Dreamer said:

Excellent link... I'm putting this on my FaceBook page...

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Ditto :banana:

Thanks alot .

hgreen said:

Unfortunately it starts at a very young age now.

The indoctrination of our youth in public schools to not question the authority of the state or think critically about any issue.

Some are a lost cause.

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As a government teacher in the public schools, I can tell you that I and many of my colleagues spend a huge amount of our time on the Bill of Rights. Much as they feel about many things taught to them in school, most "students" really don't care.

Dr. Todd,

If all due respect to your years of teaching, IF you can not get the kids to care about the Bill of Rights, or any other History lesson, then it just might be the way you present the coarse.

In my local group of Open Carry Advocates, just this one little county, I have over 25 members from the age of 13-18.
While I realize that is not very many in a county of 1 million people. how many others watch and look, and read, without joining? I would say many, from reading my info supplied by Facebook.

We have had student reporters interview our members for school papers. Rater the school allowed the articles, I do not know. I never seen them. My guess is that they were never allowed to be printed.

Iopencarry said:

Dr. Todd,

If all due respect to your years of teaching, IF you can not get the kids to care about the Bill of Rights, or any other History lesson, then it just might be the way you present the coarse.

In my local group of Open Carry Advocates, just this one little county, I have over 25 members from the age of 13-18.
While I realize that is not very many in a county of 1 million people. how many others watch and look, and read, without joining? I would say many, from reading my info supplied by Facebook.

We have had student reporters interview our members for school papers. Rater the school allowed the articles, I do not know. I never seen them. My guess is that they were never allowed to be printed.

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I applaud your work with local students. My point was not to say that there aren't ANY students who are interested in the their rights, rather that MOST of my students see the police (and other governmental "actors") as people to feared... a belief based in a sense of powerlessness to protect themselves from the police. I teach in an alternative school in the inner-city, a school in which over 90% have been adjudicated and to them the police are, as one student succinctly phrased it, one more "street gang" that they may have to deal with. This is not something that is learned from the classroom, but is something that comes from their experiences on the street and at home. They understand what I and others are teaching them, but their experience is that it is a losing battle. What they learn in school may sound great, but their reality is quite different. One of the most common replies is that what we teach MAY be true for others (white and able to hire a good lawyer), but not for them. I have had a few students, though, who have returned and have have thanked me because they did assert their rights, especially the right to remain silent other than to ask if they are free to go. But for many, the fear of retribution and their reality tells them it just isn't so. The notion that they have "rights" is oftentimes contradicted by what they see happening around them.

DrTodd said:

I applaud your work with local students. My point was not to say that there aren't ANY students who are interested in the their rights, rather that MOST of my students see the police (and other governmental "actors") as people to feared... a belief based in a sense of powerlessness to protect themselves from the police. I teach in an alternative school in the inner-city, a school in which over 90% have been adjudicated and to them the police are, as one student succinctly phrased it, one more "street gang" that they may have to deal with. This is not something that is learned from the classroom, but is something that comes from their experiences on the street and at home. They understand what I and others are teaching them, but their experience is that it is a losing battle. What they learn in school may sound great, but their reality is quite different. One of the most common replies is that what we teach MAY be true for others (white and able to hire a good lawyer), but not for them. I have had a few students, though, who have returned and have have thanked me because they did assert their rights, especially the right to remain silent other than to ask if they are free to go. But for many, the fear of retribution and their reality tells them it just isn't so. The notion that they have "rights" is oftentimes contradicted by what they see happening around them.

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I moved around a lot as a child and my father being a civil rights buff taught me everything he knew when I was around 5. My mother and father seperated, and long story short I went thru a lot of battered womens shelters and been homeless, I've lived in my share of bad areas and never had my rights violated, or waived any of my rights unless under durress being comfronted by leos multiple times. Even living off of crenshaw in LA in a studio apartment. And this was all before 13. How you present yourself and contest LEO's has a good bit to do with it. I may be irish (not white, I'm not a crayon) But I can't afford a lawyer and I'm positive anyone can see that looking at me first glance. However I'm entirely confident I could represent myself in a case like that no issue..

A good majority of police officers do act like boneified power rangers but I think they watched one too many bruce willis movies :lol:

I know I will never be scared to assert the rights secured by my forefathers, and if a LEO has a problem with ctizens and especially children knowing the constitution then he is in the wrong line of buisness. In any case, I think the old rule use it or lose it applies here

realityfatality said:

I moved around a lot as a child and my father being a civil rights buff taught me everything he knew when I was around 5. My mother and father seperated, and long story short I went thru a lot of battered womens shelters and been homeless, I've lived in my share of bad areas and never had my rights violated, or waived any of my rights unless under durress being comfronted by leos multiple times. Even living off of crenshaw in LA in a studio apartment. And this was all before 13. How you present yourself and contest LEO's has a good bit to do with it. I may be irish (not white, I'm not a crayon) But I can't afford a lawyer and I'm positive anyone can see that looking at me first glance. However I'm entirely confident I could represent myself in a case like that no issue..

A good majority of police officers do act like boneified power rangers but I think they watched one too many bruce willis movies :lol:

I know I will never be scared to assert the rights secured by my forefathers, and if a LEO has a problem with ctizens and especially children knowing the constitution then he is in the wrong line of buisness. In any case, I think the old rule use it or lose it applies here

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Right on ! good post.
Yeah its a bummer, being young in Kalifornia.
When I was 15 and in my home state of Iowa, we could carry a loaded gun and walk down to the old dump and go shooting, "Policeman" back then just waved hi, and kept on driving, them were your friends and you could trust them back then.
Iowa has changed a "LOT" from 50 years ago, they are now also trying to get their rights back to.
Its sad how fast we can lose our rights, and the exercise of freedom.

I think its legal to carry a sheath knife,( Open Carry) and( not double edged ).
Can't carry on school grounds.
This is not legal advise, you will have to google and research it yourself.( Cal knife laws) ETC.
Good researching friend !
Robin47

Robin47 said:

Right on ! good post.
Yeah its a bummer, being young in Kalifornia.
When I was 15 and in my home state of Iowa, we could carry a loaded gun and walk down to the old dump and go shooting, "Policeman" back then just waved hi, and kept on driving, them were your friends and you could trust them back then.
Iowa has changed a "LOT" from 50 years ago, they are now also trying to get their rights back to.
Its sad how fast we can lose our rights, and the exercise of freedom.

I think its legal to carry a sheath knife,( Open Carry) and( not double edged ).
Can't carry on school grounds.
This is not legal advise, you will have to google and research it yourself.( Cal knife laws) ETC.
Good researching friend !
Robin47

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It's not too bad, there's always a way around something if you use your noodle. Not too bad.
Ahh I have known the knife laws in california since I was 5 and always brush up since the knife laws changed a lot since 1991.

Pc 653k covers double edged blades as dirk/daggers and are legal to carry openly only. No length limit. My Edc ka-bar has a false edge so it's technically double edged.

Anyway. I miss living in small towns where I could get away with carrying my dads gun down the street to explore the hills like it's nothing out of the ordinary. Where I live now I can't go anywhere without getting a "why do you need a knife like that". Seems like they have forgotten it's not my needs it's my rights, and beyond that is absolutely lawful and none of their buisness