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Thread: I have a holster question...

  1. #1
    Regular Member vindicated's Avatar
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    I have a holster question...

    Hey Guys/Gals,

    I am new to this forum but not new to forum's in general. I did a search but could not find any relevant information.

    Can anyone tell me what the law is in California regarding retention devices on holsters? Am I required under law to have a thumbsnap?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    No retention required under California law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member vindicated's Avatar
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    Sweet. Do you know this because it isn't specified under any penal code? I couldn't find anything other than "holster" in any of the law I looked through, so that is good news.

  4. #4
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    any non-concealed holster is good to go.

    We do recommend at least a level 2 retention, for your safety and for gun control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    Sweet. Do you know this because it isn't specified under any penal code? I couldn't find anything other than "holster" in any of the law I looked through, so that is good news.
    Is there.anything prohibiting the use of a specific type of holster?

    If no, then there are no restrictions and you can do what you want.

  6. #6
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    Hey Guys/Gals,

    I am new to this forum but not new to forum's in general. I did a search but could not find any relevant information.

    Can anyone tell me what the law is in California regarding retention devices on holsters? Am I required under law to have a thumbsnap?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
    My choice and why below.

    Check out this video on YouTube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVT2j...e_gdata_player


    Ryan Burbridge

    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

  7. #7
    Regular Member ccrews's Avatar
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    Interesting thing Ryan. I just watched this video this morning at work.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccrews View Post
    Interesting thing Ryan. I just watched this video this morning at work.
    Thanks bud. I made the vid to show another UOCer. It's good to see options.


    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

  9. #9
    Regular Member vindicated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    My choice and why below.

    Check out this video on YouTube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVT2j...e_gdata_player


    Ryan Burbridge

    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    Thanks Ryan. Besides having $5k set aside for an attorney retainer, does anyone know another way to secure a lawyer in case something happens? I hear the Pre-Paid legal is a no go, but I want to start UOCing immediately.

  10. #10
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    Thanks Ryan. Besides having $5k set aside for an attorney retainer, does anyone know another way to secure a lawyer in case something happens? I hear the Pre-Paid legal is a no go, but I want to start UOCing immediately.
    You can give Davis a heads up. Not sure about a retainer but talk to him.

    Also check out the link below.

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=245866


    Jason A. Davis
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    Attorneys at Law
    27281 Las Ramblas, Suite 200
    Mission Viejo, CA 92691
    T: (949) 436-4867
    C: (949) 310-0817
    F: (949) 288-6894
    Website: www.CalGunLawyers.com
    & www.GunRightsApp.com

    Ryan Burbridge


    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

  11. #11
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    Thanks Ryan. Besides having $5k set aside for an attorney retainer, does anyone know another way to secure a lawyer in case something happens? I hear the Pre-Paid legal is a no go, but I want to start UOCing immediately.
    If you can't afford legal fees to defend yourself then its probably not a good idea to UOC alone in CA at this point.

    Start with group UOC to mitigate risk.

  12. #12
    Regular Member vindicated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    If you can't afford legal fees to defend yourself then its probably not a good idea to UOC alone in CA at this point.

    Start with group UOC to mitigate risk.
    What risk is there if you are doing everything legal? Besides an individual officer not knowing the law? In which case, wouldn't you want to immediatly demand a supervisor be sent out who KNOWS the law?

    The latest thing with the San Fernando PD has my hopes pretty high. I don't see me getting arrested, because everything I will be doing will be legal.

    If I do get arrested/detained, it will be a violation of my rights by the PD, in which case I know the case will be dismissed. The problem will be if they try to throw something bogus at me. Does that happen a lot?

  13. #13
    Regular Member teemgreen99's Avatar
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    @ Vindicated

    hgreen makes a good point, the reason for having the name and number of an attorney is the same as carrying a recording device...You may never need it but its there if you do. Same reason we all carry weapons too. You never know what kind of situation you may get into while UOCing could be saving your life or the lives of others or could be keeping yourself on the free side of the bars. Ultimatley its your call.

  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    What risk is there if you are doing everything legal? Besides an individual officer not knowing the law? In which case, wouldn't you want to immediatly demand a supervisor be sent out who KNOWS the law?

    The latest thing with the San Fernando PD has my hopes pretty high. I don't see me getting arrested, because everything I will be doing will be legal.

    If I do get arrested/detained, it will be a violation of my rights by the PD, in which case I know the case will be dismissed. The problem will be if they try to throw something bogus at me. Does that happen a lot?
    There's knowing the law and then there's knowing the law. For example, even though I've been on this forum for a while I still do not know the idiosyncrasies of carrying a loaded firearm in unincorporated territory. If I was going to do so I'd have to do some studying to make sure I had improved my chances at not getting arrested.

    Theseus was arrested and charged and found guilty of violating the law even though he didn't violate the law. Think he's just incredibly unlucky or do you think that probably happens with some regularity? El Sensei was arrested for not doing anything illegal. Mike Hunt was arrested for not doing anything illegal. CA Libertarian (where has he gone? Hopefully NH) was detained/arrested/unarrested and injured. RyanBurbridge has been detained/arrested/unarrested on multiple occasions. I can go on.

    The bottom line is, if you're open carrying, be prepared to be arrested. You'll probably be doing everything legally, but you never know if a police officer will agree with you.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    Hey Guys/Gals,

    I am new to this forum but not new to forum's in general. I did a search but could not find any relevant information.

    Can anyone tell me what the law is in California regarding retention devices on holsters? Am I required under law to have a thumbsnap?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    Sweet. Do you know this because it isn't specified under any penal code? I couldn't find anything other than "holster" in any of the law I looked through, so that is good news.
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    Thanks Ryan. Besides having $5k set aside for an attorney retainer, does anyone know another way to secure a lawyer in case something happens? I hear the Pre-Paid legal is a no go, but I want to start UOCing immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
    What risk is there if you are doing everything legal? Besides an individual officer not knowing the law? In which case, wouldn't you want to immediatly demand a supervisor be sent out who KNOWS the law?

    The latest thing with the San Fernando PD has my hopes pretty high. I don't see me getting arrested, because everything I will be doing will be legal.

    If I do get arrested/detained, it will be a violation of my rights by the PD, in which case I know the case will be dismissed. The problem will be if they try to throw something bogus at me. Does that happen a lot?
    you sound incredibly naive!
    you should not OC anywhere!
    until you have studied the forum for at least 6 months!

    you have only been here for TWO DAYS!
    it seems that most of your 5 posts! are questions about holsters.

    you say that you wouldnt get arrested cause you will be doing legal things.
    your own posts demonstrate that you could not possibly have the knowledge
    of california law necessary to keep out of even half the trouble in store for an OCer!

    have you bought a holster yet?
    do you have a good voice recorder?
    have you at least applied for a concealed carry permit?

    listen to bigtoe416, you have much to learn!

    you wont get much sympathy or help from forum members if you run out
    in your ignorance and get arrested for one the silly noob mistakes youre bound to make!

    oh, and welcome to the forum.
    ask lots of questions, learn a lot of things, get prepared.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  16. #16
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    you sound incredibly naive!
    you should not OC anywhere!
    until you have studied the forum for at least 6 months!

    you have only been here for TWO DAYS!
    it seems that most of your 5 posts! are questions about holsters.

    you say that you wouldnt get arrested cause you will be doing legal things.
    your own posts demonstrate that you could not possibly have the knowledge
    of california law necessary to keep out of even half the trouble in store for an OCer!

    have you bought a holster yet?
    do you have a good voice recorder?
    have you at least applied for a concealed carry permit?

    listen to bigtoe416, you have much to learn!

    you wont get much sympathy or help from forum members if you run out
    in your ignorance and get arrested for one the silly noob mistakes youre bound to make!

    oh, and welcome to the forum.
    ask lots of questions, learn a lot of things, get prepared.
    While I agree with most of your post I do have to disagree with the sympathy part.

    I think I speak for most. If you get slammed with BS charges I and most everyone on this forum WILL have sympathy and will do what we can to help.

    BUT... Sympathy will NOT save your butt!

    If you arm yourself with the knowledge and the tools you should have many positive UOC experiences.

    When and if you choose to UOC you are putting yourself on the front line so to speak. With enough time you can bet on a police encounter in CA.

    How it plays out is any ones guess. All you can do is be educated and professional. (it's very hard)

    I still look back and wish I would have done things differently.

    From July 2010 to now I am still not in the clear! I have spent money and time on defending myself from doing technically nothing wrong!

    There is a light at the end of the tunnel for us. I just hope when we reach that light we will never relax and allow our rights to slip so far away agin!

    Welcome abroad and stick around.

    We have strength in numbers!


    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

  17. #17
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    If you can't afford legal fees to defend yourself then its probably not a good idea to UOC alone in CA at this point.

    Start with group UOC to mitigate risk.
    Personally I look at it the other way around...

    20 years of solo OC and I've never been e-checked...group OCers get groped on a regular basis.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    Personally I look at it the other way around...

    20 years of solo OC and I've never been e-checked...group OCers get groped on a regular basis.
    3 years solo OC and I have been molested quite a few times.

  19. #19
    Regular Member vindicated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    There's knowing the law and then there's knowing the law. For example, even though I've been on this forum for a while I still do not know the idiosyncrasies of carrying a loaded firearm in unincorporated territory. If I was going to do so I'd have to do some studying to make sure I had improved my chances at not getting arrested.

    Theseus was arrested and charged and found guilty of violating the law even though he didn't violate the law. Think he's just incredibly unlucky or do you think that probably happens with some regularity? El Sensei was arrested for not doing anything illegal. Mike Hunt was arrested for not doing anything illegal. CA Libertarian (where has he gone? Hopefully NH) was detained/arrested/unarrested and injured. RyanBurbridge has been detained/arrested/unarrested on multiple occasions. I can go on.

    The bottom line is, if you're open carrying, be prepared to be arrested. You'll probably be doing everything legally, but you never know if a police officer will agree with you.
    Good advice, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    you sound incredibly naive!
    you should not OC anywhere!
    until you have studied the forum for at least 6 months!

    you have only been here for TWO DAYS!
    it seems that most of your 5 posts! are questions about holsters.

    you say that you wouldnt get arrested cause you will be doing legal things.
    your own posts demonstrate that you could not possibly have the knowledge
    of california law necessary to keep out of even half the trouble in store for an OCer!

    have you bought a holster yet?
    do you have a good voice recorder?
    have you at least applied for a concealed carry permit?

    listen to bigtoe416, you have much to learn!

    you wont get much sympathy or help from forum members if you run out
    in your ignorance and get arrested for one the silly noob mistakes youre bound to make!

    oh, and welcome to the forum.
    ask lots of questions, learn a lot of things, get prepared.
    Dear 1245A,

    I lol'd at your post. Literally. I joined the forum to ask this question. I studied the law. Not on your pamphlets, but on the California law website. There will be no silly noob mistakes on my part. (What could that be anyway? School Zone/Public Building? I have already familiarized myself with the Schools Zones in the places I intend to carry. Forget to clear a chamber or leave a loaded mag in? I'm not that stupid). I don't see how I could make one. My open carry will be with a shirt tucked in, slacks, and a dress shirt (setting an example w/ no possibility for concealment) My unloaded gun will be stored to my right, and my ammunition stored on my left. Exposed. According to the law, this is legal. I understand there is a chance of unlawful detention, in which I am fully prepared to fight it in court. Yes, I have a Fobus holster and Fobus double mag pouch. I also have various printed materials including the cards, flyers, my own copies of the California Penal code, and the most recent summary ruling on the San Fernando Police department’s arrest of Jose Diaz.

    You said I have been here for 2 days, yet I have been studying and trying to comprehend the California law for about a year now. I didn't know about this website until it was recommended to me by a friend. My holster question was because I READ THE LAW, and couldn't find any pertinent information about holsters in it. So what did I do? I asked you guys JUST IN CASE I missed something. See, I am prepared. And now my question was answered, and I will be looking into a holster with a thumb snap for my protection. Oh, and I also have a drop leg, but I don't like those because it looks too tactical, and I don't want the negitivity I know will come along with it. I use it hiking.

    To answer your other question, yes, I do have a micro recorder and I have my CCW application including letter prepared to send off to the county sheriff this next week. I didn't do so until reading it might be a good idea on this forum.

    I guess I was being a little naive on me saying I don't see me getting arrested. That was kind of silly. You said however, that that post demonstrates I don't have the knowledge? Actually, it fully demonstrates my knowledge of California Penal Code, because I KNOW I WILL BE LEGAL according to law, you get me? But I know arrest can still happen. Which in turn is why I asked the question about lawyers. The law is interpreted in it's own way, but both LEO's and Judges, we all know this.

    Thank you for your post though, I appreciate your input even though it was a negative, uninformed post in itself. Don't expect I will let you treat me like a child. I have been carrying legally in National Forests and on BLM land while hunting/hiking/backpacking for years. I have numerous encounters with Park Rangers, Sheriff's, and BLM Rangers. This will just be my first time in an incorporated city. We are all on the same team here, mmmk pumpkin? D
    Last edited by vindicated; 03-12-2011 at 03:00 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wow,,,

    i didnt expect that!
    i expected to be ignored, and that you would never return, or reply!
    your explanation of your studies and experience clears up my misgivings about you.
    i also see that youre mature enough to take a licking, and still keep your cool!
    i actually planned to write a few much ruder comments, but i held back.
    i was showing my ignorance when i typed to you,
    but i have seen lots of drive by young posters come to the forum.
    so,,, carry on!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  21. #21
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pullnshoot25 View Post
    3 years solo OC and I have been molested quite a few times.
    Only once out of all our SBOC events has there ever been e-checks and we regularly have between 40 and 80 people at our meets and meet between 2 to 4 times a month.

    The vast majority of e-checks I've received have been when I OC solo or with one other person.

    Its also the time when cops who are anti-oc will target you because its a lot easier to have it be their word against yours, even if you are totally in the right. Its much harder when there are 50 other people watching and recording the cops than just you.

  22. #22
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    i didnt expect that!
    i expected to be ignored, and that you would never return, or reply!
    your explanation of your studies and experience clears up my misgivings about you.
    i also see that youre mature enough to take a licking, and still keep your cool!
    i actually planned to write a few much ruder comments, but i held back.
    i was showing my ignorance when i typed to you,
    but i have seen lots of drive by young posters come to the forum.
    so,,, carry on!
    Need to never judge people based on their OCDO registration time or # of posts.
    All but 2 or 3 of the 6 SBOC board members who are VERY well versed in the law and open carry issues even have accounts on this forum.

    While this forum is great, it is not the end-all-be-all of open carry in CA.

    I'd even venture to say that more respect should be given to people with # of OC events under their belt than OCDO posts.

  23. #23
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    Need to never judge people based on their OCDO registration time or # of posts.
    All but 2 or 3 of the 6 SBOC board members who are VERY well versed in the law and open carry issues even have accounts on this forum.

    While this forum is great, it is not the end-all-be-all of open carry in CA.

    I'd even venture to say that more respect should be given to people with # of OC events under their belt than OCDO posts.

    Im not sure just how to respond to that. Some may not be offended if 'experience' was substituted where you wrote 'events'. Of course, advocacy of open carry should not be about respect or street cred or the establishment of exclusive group subsets.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  24. #24
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Holsters?

    I use one of these.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  25. #25
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well, some more thoughts,,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post

    The vast majority of e-checks I've received have been when I OC solo or with one other person.

    I
    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    Need to never judge people based on their OCDO registration time or # of posts.


    While this forum is great, it is not the end-all-be-all of open carry in CA.
    I got 12031 e checked the first time UOC

    Originally Posted by Gundude
    Reason:
    You will be much easier to defend against actions if the need shall arise. Keep track of the denial and keep a recorder on you while open carrying. Now is not the time to get in trouble for open carrying.

    This denial document will help defend myself from what actions? Carrying concealed without a permit? Carrying LOC?
    I have been UOC'ing for over a year now and haven't had a (e) check. I guess I'm staying out of trouble.



    I got 12031 e checked the first time UOC

    ryan

    ive been thinking, a lot!
    studying the california law for a year,
    is not nearly as informative as interacting on this forum, for 6 months,
    reading real life run ins with LEO, and yacking back and forth
    with studious members here about the ins and outs of the laws and outcomes.
    their is a lot of difference between the word of law, and its application!
    you cant learn about noob mistakes in a law book.
    im sorry i was so rude to vindicated, but, i worry!

    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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