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Thread: Using Google maps to locate GFSZ's

  1. #1
    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Using Google maps to locate GFSZ's

    Hi all. I believe this was discussed in an old thread, but it's been a while. How do I use Google maps to identify the 'forbidden zones' around school properties? I've seen pics posted of a grey ring on google maps identifying the 1000' perimeter of the GFSZ, but I don't know how to make maps like that on Google.

    Anyone know how to do this?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    Well, I don't know about Google Maps, but on Google Earth, there are several tools that you can use to figure out the 1000' radius from a school. My favorite on is zoomin in on a school, and then using the ruler tool, to figure out how far 1000' goes to in a certain direction. Now I just need to figure out how to make a circle with a 1000' radius.
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    Regular Member Michael Hopkins's Avatar
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    Idea?

    1. Go out in a very much abandoned field.
    2. Detonate an aerial munition with a blast radius of 1000' (and make sure you take video of said boom to show to all of us).
    3. Wait until Google Earth does its next aerial survey.
    4. Locate your hole in the sat scan.
    5. Cut and paste said hole scanned from G. Earth.
    6. Turn opacity down so you can see through it
    7. Bingo, you have a 1000' template.

    While you are getting that set up, I'll go look through Google Earth and Maps and figure out how to do it the computer (read: boring) way and will report back when I do, as now I'm curious myself.

    Disclaimer - The above description is obviously just my stupid sense of humor and in no way endorses the use of high explosives by any untrained and/or unlicensed personnel.
    When I told you you needed to trouble-shoot your PC, I didn't mean load it with .45 lead when Windows blew up again.

  4. #4
    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael hopkins View Post
    1. Go out in a very much abandoned field.
    2. Detonate an aerial munition with a blast radius of 1000' (and make sure you take video of said boom to show to all of us).
    3. Wait until google earth does its next aerial survey.
    4. Locate your hole in the sat scan.
    5. Cut and paste said hole scanned from g. Earth.
    6. Turn opacity down so you can see through it
    7. Bingo, you have a 1000' template.

    While you are getting that set up, i'll go look through google earth and maps and figure out how to do it the computer (read: Boring) way and will report back when i do, as now i'm curious myself.

    Disclaimer - the above description is obviously just my stupid sense of humor and in no way endorses the use of high explosives by any untrained and/or unlicensed personnel.
    lol

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Does Wisconsin have a GFSZ act?

    Because the Federal one is unenforceable.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Michael Hopkins's Avatar
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    While it looks like it is rather simple in Google Earth Pro, that will cost you about $400/yr.

    This, however,

    http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm

    appears to be free. It'll take a little work, but should get the job done for you, and since it uses Google Places as it's engine, it should have the same accuracy as Google Maps.

    Hope that helps.
    Mike
    When I told you you needed to trouble-shoot your PC, I didn't mean load it with .45 lead when Windows blew up again.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Does Wisconsin have a GFSZ act?

    Because the Federal one is unenforceable.
    Gun-Free Schools. Wisconsin law, which was modeled on the federal Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1990, prohibits the possession or shooting of a firearm within a school zone. It defines a school zone as in the school building, the school grounds, and the area within 1000 feet of the school grounds. The law provides a number of exceptions, including possessing a firearm on private property, using a firearm for a school program, or carrying a firearm while crossing a school zone to get to lands open to hunting, and it excludes beebee guns, air guns, and starter pistols from the definition of “firearm” [s. 948.605].

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/wb/00wb11.pdf

    WCI has filed a lawsuit against the WI GFSZ.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...l-Zone-Lawsuit
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  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Gun-Free Schools. Wisconsin law, which was modeled on the federal Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1990, prohibits the possession or shooting of a firearm within a school zone. It defines a school zone as in the school building, the school grounds, and the area within 1000 feet of the school grounds. The law provides a number of exceptions, including possessing a firearm on private property, using a firearm for a school program, or carrying a firearm while crossing a school zone to get to lands open to hunting, and it excludes beebee guns, air guns, and starter pistols from the definition of “firearm” [s. 948.605].

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/wb/00wb11.pdf

    WCI has filed a lawsuit against the WI GFSZ.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...l-Zone-Lawsuit
    Thanks for the info.

    I didn't realize y'all had to deal with this too. Well, good luck with that. California's GFSZ basically makes OC impossible in most developed areas.

    Over here, we tried to do the whole "zone map" thing, and gave the endeavor up as creating more problems than it solved (for example, once you go around mapping, there goes your excuse for any schools you might have missed, at least for the CA version of the law).

    On the other hand, in the context of a lawsuit, a sample of such a map would go a long way to proving how school zones amount to a complete prohibition in many cities.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-11-2011 at 11:54 AM.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    I didn't realize y'all had to deal with this too. Well, good luck with that. California's GFSZ basically makes OC impossible in most developed areas.

    Over here, we tried to do the whole "zone map" thing, and gave the endeavor up as creating more problems than it solved (for example, once you go around mapping, there goes your excuse for any schools you might have missed, at least for the CA version of the law).

    On the other hand, in the context of a lawsuit, a sample of such a map would go a long way to proving how school zones amount to a complete prohibition in many cities.
    CA sounds exactly like WI in that regard.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  10. #10
    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    I didn't realize y'all had to deal with this too. Well, good luck with that. California's GFSZ basically makes OC impossible in most developed areas.

    Over here, we tried to do the whole "zone map" thing, and gave the endeavor up as creating more problems than it solved (for example, once you go around mapping, there goes your excuse for any schools you might have missed, at least for the CA version of the law).

    On the other hand, in the context of a lawsuit, a sample of such a map would go a long way to proving how school zones amount to a complete prohibition in many cities.
    Indeed, just as Protias said, WI is much like CA in that regard. I live less than one block from a parochial elementary school, with several public schools in the area, too. My reason for wanting to map out my area is to confirm what I already suspect, and that is complete prohibition of OC due to the overlapping GFSZ's. I wouldn't even dream of trying to carry around my neighborhood or try to skirt around the 'forbidden zones'. There are way too many pitfalls to be encountered by someone who follows the laws. Only cops and criminals get to carry around here. My wife or I carrying to protect our kids from the crackheads down the street, or the sex offenders living a few blocks over is just out of the question.

    Thank you liberal idiot $hitheads of Wisconsin for legislating me out of the right to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

  11. #11
    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hopkins View Post
    While it looks like it is rather simple in Google Earth Pro, that will cost you about $400/yr.

    This, however,

    http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm

    appears to be free. It'll take a little work, but should get the job done for you, and since it uses Google Places as it's engine, it should have the same accuracy as Google Maps.

    Hope that helps.
    Mike

    Thanks Mike, I'll check it out.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Michael Hopkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehighways View Post
    Thanks Mike, I'll check it out.
    You're welcome. Good Luck.
    When I told you you needed to trouble-shoot your PC, I didn't mean load it with .45 lead when Windows blew up again.

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    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
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    see http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...I-Google-Earth

    I used Google Earth to locate all of the school "property" and used a free tool called Circle Generator which I found here: http://www.techidiots.net/project-pa...rcle-generator

    instructions are on the page, let me know if you need help.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Circle generator is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

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    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehighways View Post
    Circle generator is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

    "In a court trial half the lawyers are wrong." - Captain Nemo

    "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private life and the political affiliations of the citizens." - Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    The state law Says you knowingly have to break the law. If you don't know where the schools are, you can not knowing break the law. Think that through before you 'zero' in on the school zones.

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    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
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    my two cents

    948.605 (2)(a)
    (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.

    Don't forget about that little phrase "or has reasonable cause to believe". You walk down a street and pass a "School Zone Speed Limit" sign and they (arguably) got ya. Walk past a crosswalk marked with the "School Children Crossing" sign and they (arguably) got ya. Get passed by three school buses at 2:30 PM???? who knows, but your still putting yourself in the hands of the prosecution and what their definition of "has reasonable cause to believe" is.

    I've only mapped out my neighborhood because I think (not know) that it would be fairly easy to prove that I would have "reasonable cause to believe" where the schools are. Fact: I have a daughter in elementary school and she participates in many school activities that take place in other schools (like the High School in town) - I take her to these events, so for me it was a no brainier to be responsible about it.

    I'm not trying to argue for or against the reasons of "knowing" where the limits are, just offering my opinion on the matter. To each his/her own.

    Now, if I were visiting or traveling through a different town then it's a different story.
    "In a court trial half the lawyers are wrong." - Captain Nemo

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    In California, Theseus was convicted of the GFSZ law while he was on private property. The court decided to limit private property to one's curtilage, and (more pertinently) they basically decided that just by choosing to be an UOCer, he had taken on a responsibility to learn the schools nearby, and thus he "reasonably" should know about all of them.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-15-2011 at 11:07 AM.

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    In California, Theseus was convicted of the GFSZ law while he was on private property. The court decided to limit private property to one's cartilage, and (more pertinently) they basically decided that just by choosing to be an UOCer, he had taken on a responsibility to learn the schools nearby, and thus he "reasonably" should know about all of them.

    Just how much cake do those thought-police pull down a year...sounds like a cushy job; probably has a lot of union bennies too.
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    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardballer View Post
    The state law Says you knowingly have to break the law. If you don't know where the schools are, you can not knowing break the law. Think that through before you 'zero' in on the school zones.
    I appreciate your concern, and I do realize that mapping school zones can be damning should one violate the GFSZ law. The only reason I wanted to do it was to confirm what I had suspected, and that is on my side of this town, open carry cannot be done. The school zones overlap each other effectively making this whole side of town a no-go. I have no intention of mapping any other areas.

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    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcrewUH60 View Post
    [...] Fact: I have a daughter in elementary school and she participates in many school activities that take place in other schools (like the High School in town) - I take her to these events, so for me it was a no brainier to be responsible about it. [...]
    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    [...] The court [...] basically decided that just by choosing to be an UOCer, he had taken on a responsibility to learn the schools nearby, and thus he "reasonably" should know about all of them.
    exactly my concern if it were to ever go to court. Ignorance is not a good defense.
    "In a court trial half the lawyers are wrong." - Captain Nemo

    "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private life and the political affiliations of the citizens." - Albert Einstein

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  22. #22
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul
    a sample of such a map would go a long way to proving how school zones amount to a complete prohibition in many cities.
    Here in Milwaukee the police dep't issued a map of school zones attached to a memo addressing OC issues shortly after the AGs memo about OC not being DC. (Giving police another way to harass citizens.)
    I understand that people who have seen this map say that large portions of the city are defense-free zones, and that those zones overlap quite well with high-crime areas, and that the MPD map will feature in the lawsuit WCI has filed to get the "GF"SZ law modified or overturned.

    Quote Originally Posted by IcrewUH60
    948.605 (2)(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.
    Don't forget about that little phrase "or has reasonable cause to believe". You walk down a street and pass a "School Zone Speed Limit" sign and they (arguably) got ya. Walk past a crosswalk marked with the "School Children Crossing" sign and they (arguably) got ya.
    If I were charged with this, I'd expect my lawyer to present arguments to the effect of "there's nothing on those signs that says where the school is, they just alert people that there's a school somewhere around, and that children might be in the area."

    Unless the gov't (at whatever level) is going to take steps to notify us of where this 1000' "GF"SZ is, I don't see how they can reasonably expect people to know about anything other than schools they pass frequently in their daily activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluehighways
    The school zones overlap each other effectively making this whole side of town a no-go. I have no intention of mapping any other areas.
    You might contact Nik or Hubert or Auric to see if your map would make a useful addition to the WCI lawsuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by IcrewUH60
    Ignorance is not a good defense.
    But in this law it's the only defense other than "I wasn't closer than 1000' to a school".
    I discussed this with an officer friend of mine a couple weeks ago, & he tried to be very nice about telling me he thought there was a school across the street (there's not, but there is one a couple blocks away from where we were). I told him I'd parked & walked on private property, so even if there was a school there it didn't matter.
    And oh by the way, Mr. "I've got a federal law allowing me to carry concealed anywhere I want, even in Chicago" (yes, I'm jealous), you do realize you can't carry in a school zone off duty, right? He said he'd look it up.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    If I were charged with this, I'd expect my lawyer to present arguments to the effect of "there's nothing on those signs that says where the school is, they just alert people that there's a school somewhere around, and that children might be in the area."

    Unless the gov't (at whatever level) is going to take steps to notify us of where this 1000' "GF"SZ is, I don't see how they can reasonably expect people to know about anything other than schools they pass frequently in their daily activities.
    Once again, Theseus was convicted as a result of this precise defense failing.

    Do not rely on it.

    In actual practice in an actual court room, a jury has been convinced that any carrier takes on a responsibility to know every school in the areas they frequent.

    Do you really want to bet that your jury is smarter?
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-20-2011 at 08:07 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member IcrewUH60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    If I were charged with this, I'd expect my lawyer to present arguments to the effect of "there's nothing on those signs that says where the school is, they just alert people that there's a school somewhere around, and that children might be in the area."
    I agree and that's what I expect any lawyer would do. However, you're still in court at this point facing felony charges.

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Unless the gov't (at whatever level) is going to take steps to notify us of where this 1000' "GF"SZ is, I don't see how they can reasonably expect people to know about anything other than schools they pass frequently in their daily activities.
    The Government doesnt have to reasonably expect anything to get a conviction. They just have to prove in court that you would have reasonably expected to know where "the line" is.

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    But in this law it's the only defense other than "I wasn't closer than 1000' to a school". I discussed this with an officer friend of mine a couple weeks ago, & he tried to be very nice about telling me he thought there was a school across the street (there's not, but there is one a couple blocks away from where we were). I told him I'd parked & walked on private property, so even if there was a school there it didn't matter. And oh by the way, Mr. "I've got a federal law allowing me to carry concealed anywhere I want, even in Chicago" (yes, I'm jealous), you do realize you can't carry in a school zone off duty, right? He said he'd look it up.
    that's great until you have to cross the street, and if he didnt observe you cross the street then he's got nothing... this time.

    On a side note, thanks for the $5!

    I can possibly see differences in your individual circumstances, however I do not believe that I could successfully defend myself against GFSZ charges in my own home town, given my circumstances and my involvement in the community.
    "In a court trial half the lawyers are wrong." - Captain Nemo

    "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private life and the political affiliations of the citizens." - Albert Einstein

    gunowners.org ~ lp.org ~ downsizedc.org ~ oathkeepers.org ~ campaignforliberty.com/usa/WI/ ~ goooh.com

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