Using Google maps to locate GFSZ's

IcrewUH60 said:

[...] Fact: I have a daughter in elementary school and she participates in many school activities that take place in other schools (like the High School in town) - I take her to these events, so for me it was a no brainier to be responsible about it. [...]

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marshaul said:

[...] The court [...] basically decided that just by choosing to be an UOCer, he had taken on a responsibility to learn the schools nearby, and thus he "reasonably" should know about all of them.

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exactly my concern if it were to ever go to court. Ignorance is not a good defense.

marshaul said:

a sample of such a map would go a long way to proving how school zones amount to a complete prohibition in many cities.

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Here in Milwaukee the police dep't issued a map of school zones attached to a memo addressing OC issues shortly after the AGs memo about OC not being DC. (Giving police another way to harass citizens.)
I understand that people who have seen this map say that large portions of the city are defense-free zones, and that those zones overlap quite well with high-crime areas, and that the MPD map will feature in the lawsuit WCI has filed to get the "GF"SZ law modified or overturned.

IcrewUH60 said:

948.605 (2)(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.
Don't forget about that little phrase "or has reasonable cause to believe". You walk down a street and pass a "School Zone Speed Limit" sign and they (arguably) got ya. Walk past a crosswalk marked with the "School Children Crossing" sign and they (arguably) got ya.

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If I were charged with this, I'd expect my lawyer to present arguments to the effect of "there's nothing on those signs that says where the school is, they just alert people that there's a school somewhere around, and that children might be in the area."

Unless the gov't (at whatever level) is going to take steps to notify us of where this 1000' "GF"SZ is, I don't see how they can reasonably expect people to know about anything other than schools they pass frequently in their daily activities.

bluehighways said:

The school zones overlap each other effectively making this whole side of town a no-go. I have no intention of mapping any other areas.

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You might contact Nik or Hubert or Auric to see if your map would make a useful addition to the WCI lawsuit.

IcrewUH60 said:

Ignorance is not a good defense.

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But in this law it's the only defense other than "I wasn't closer than 1000' to a school".
I discussed this with an officer friend of mine a couple weeks ago, & he tried to be very nice about telling me he thought there was a school across the street (there's not, but there is one a couple blocks away from where we were). I told him I'd parked & walked on private property, so even if there was a school there it didn't matter.
And oh by the way, Mr. "I've got a federal law allowing me to carry concealed anywhere I want, even in Chicago" (yes, I'm jealous), you do realize you can't carry in a school zone off duty, right? He said he'd look it up. :lol:

MKEgal said:

If I were charged with this, I'd expect my lawyer to present arguments to the effect of "there's nothing on those signs that says where the school is, they just alert people that there's a school somewhere around, and that children might be in the area."

Unless the gov't (at whatever level) is going to take steps to notify us of where this 1000' "GF"SZ is, I don't see how they can reasonably expect people to know about anything other than schools they pass frequently in their daily activities.

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Once again, Theseus was convicted as a result of this precise defense failing.

Do not rely on it.

In actual practice in an actual court room, a jury has been convinced that any carrier takes on a responsibility to know every school in the areas they frequent.

Do you really want to bet that your jury is smarter?

MKEgal said:

If I were charged with this, I'd expect my lawyer to present arguments to the effect of "there's nothing on those signs that says where the school is, they just alert people that there's a school somewhere around, and that children might be in the area."

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I agree and that's what I expect any lawyer would do. However, you're still in court at this point facing felony charges.

MKEgal said:

Unless the gov't (at whatever level) is going to take steps to notify us of where this 1000' "GF"SZ is, I don't see how they can reasonably expect people to know about anything other than schools they pass frequently in their daily activities.

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The Government doesnt have to reasonably expect anything to get a conviction. They just have to prove in court that you would have reasonably expected to know where "the line" is.

MKEgal said:

But in this law it's the only defense other than "I wasn't closer than 1000' to a school". I discussed this with an officer friend of mine a couple weeks ago, & he tried to be very nice about telling me he thought there was a school across the street (there's not, but there is one a couple blocks away from where we were). I told him I'd parked & walked on private property, so even if there was a school there it didn't matter. And oh by the way, Mr. "I've got a federal law allowing me to carry concealed anywhere I want, even in Chicago" (yes, I'm jealous), you do realize you can't carry in a school zone off duty, right? He said he'd look it up. :lol:

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that's great until you have to cross the street, and if he didnt observe you cross the street then he's got nothing... this time.

On a side note, thanks for the $5!

I can possibly see differences in your individual circumstances, however I do not believe that I could successfully defend myself against GFSZ charges in my own home town, given my circumstances and my involvement in the community.