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Thread: Never thought about it till today...

  1. #1
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Never thought about it till today...

    Since I have started my new job, I have not been carrying all day long in a while. I can not open carry at work, like I did at my last job. I have gotten into a routine and havnt really thought about it till today. I leave for work and since I cant carry at work, I dont even bother strapping it on, I take it out the door with me in my hand and when I get in my car I stuff it in between the two seats. Thats where it resides until I get home and remove it and carry it inside, in my hand. I dropped my keys on the way in and switched hands when I picked them up and looked out on the sidewalk and saw a guy looking at me. I dont know wether he saw my firearm or not, but it made me think back to the recent post about a guy holding his pistol while police were inspecting his backyard. At first a thought hit me "what if he called the police to report a guy going into a house with a gun in his hand"? I carry it holstered and I am new to the nieghborhood. But then as I walked inside a second thought hit me, "what the hell do I care? I am carrying my firearm from my house to my car in my driveway, and from the car to my house when I get home. This is my residence and if they dont like it, too bad. I'll clean my freaking guns on my front steps if I feel like it".

    I did start wondering though, could I be harrased by LEO for "brandishing" in my own yard? I havent seen much about openly handling handguns in plain site on private property.

    What do you all think?
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    9.41.270 look at (3) (a) Notice it says IN

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

    (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

    You would still have to "manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

  3. #3
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Food for thought, your place of abode includes your attached porch or deck, but not your driveway or yard even if fenced.

    RCW 9.41.270 Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm -- Unlawful carrying or handling

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

    (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;
    Last edited by BigDave; 03-11-2011 at 12:41 AM.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Dave-

    That means he can clean his guns on his porch.

    As for carrying a firearm in one's hand while going from car to house, it's a bit of a stretch to think the police would even bother unless there were words exchanged or the gun was pointed at the "passerby".

    Years ago I used to live in an Apartment. When I'd come back from the range on Saturdays I often would carry my uncased AR-15 past a rowdy neighbor's apartment, on the way to mine. All they ever did was quickly close the door when they saw me coming. Never had any Police respond.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Are you carrying it in your hand because you don’t want to deal with the hassle of putting it back on your belt when you get home?

    If so, I would suggest a paddle holster from a MFG like Safariland. Easy on, and easy off, yet comfortable and looks good.

    Just a thought.

  6. #6
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    9.41.270 look at (3) (a) Notice it says IN
    An attached deck or porch is considered IN the place of abode.

    35 Wn. App. 96, STATE v. HALEY

    AUTHOR OF MAJORITY OPINION: Green, J.-

    MAJORITY OPINION:

    Kevin M. Haley, a juvenile, appeals his conviction for intimidation with a deadly weapon under RCW 9.41.270(1). The dispositive question is whether Kevin's display of a BB gun while standing on a deck attached to his home was "in his place of abode" and came within an exception to this statute. RCW 9.41.270(3)(a). Kevin contends the deck was a part of his abode and the charge was therefore invalid. We reverse.

    And for those who feel their yard should apply, well it doesn't

    118 Wn. App. 480, State v. Smith

    A backyard does not satisfy the place of abode exception under RCW 9.41.270.«8» Accordingly, we affirm Smith's conviction.

    Affirmed.

    COLEMAN and KENNEDY, JJ., concur.

    This is not to say one would be in violation of law carrying their firearm in hand or out of case from and to their vehicle, it could under some circumstances lead to difficulties.
    Last edited by BigDave; 03-11-2011 at 11:17 AM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  7. #7
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    I carry my AR from my truck to my house every day when I get home from work. It's not in a case, and many of my neighbors have seen me do this. There has never been anything said or any police called.



    (A sidearm is used for fighting your way to your vehicle, where your rifle is... )
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    I think they would have trouble proving "warrants alarm" if the pistol is in a holster and you are carrying the holstered pistol. Waving it around and running up the walk screaming "Death to all nematodes" might be a horse of a different color.

  9. #9
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Now another thought...

    Since I transport my firearm stuffed between the seats in my car, I started thinking...

    "what if I get pulled over (for say a park light out, or whatever other trumped up reason a leo might come up with), and the officer ask's me to step out of the car". This means I would have to cover my firearm as I exit the vehicle and lock my vehicle, so that I am in compliance with the law. If I do not have the time or if it looks like I am trying to hide something in his eyes, things could go south for me in a hurry...

    I'm thinking our laws leave a bit to be desired.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  10. #10
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Now another thought...

    Since I transport my firearm stuffed between the seats in my car, I started thinking...

    "what if I get pulled over (for say a park light out, or whatever other trumped up reason a leo might come up with), and the officer ask's me to step out of the car". This means I would have to cover my firearm as I exit the vehicle and lock my vehicle, so that I am in compliance with the law. If I do not have the time or if it looks like I am trying to hide something in his eyes, things could go south for me in a hurry...

    I'm thinking our laws leave a bit to be desired.
    I think you need to find a better way to carry your firearm secured, instead of trying to find an excuse not to.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  11. #11
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Now another thought...

    Since I transport my firearm stuffed between the seats in my car, I started thinking...

    "what if I get pulled over (for say a park light out, or whatever other trumped up reason a leo might come up with), and the officer ask's me to step out of the car". This means I would have to cover my firearm as I exit the vehicle and lock my vehicle, so that I am in compliance with the law. If I do not have the time or if it looks like I am trying to hide something in his eyes, things could go south for me in a hurry...

    I'm thinking our laws leave a bit to be desired.

    Covering is easy. I have a folded blanket that my dog sits on when in the truck. I just move it with one hand to cover what I don't want seen. No excessive body movement required as it sits in the passenger seat, right within casual reach of my right hand.

    If you do pull over, make sure you do so in a place and manner that you can leave your vehicle legally parked. If you step out and lock your vehicle the only way the officer can search it is if they obtain a warrant or have it impounded where it is then inventoried. An exception might be if a "drug dog" sniffs the car and indicates that there are drugs present. That is viewed as PC most cases.

    I used to know a guy that always locked his car, with the keys inside, when he got stopped. No way the officer could magically find an open door to search or find anything in "plain view". When he needed to get into the car again he merely retrieved his hidden key.

    The scenario you presented does make an argument for regularly checking your lights, even the license plate light, regularly. I regularly check my brake and turn signals by just looking for their reflection on the wall of my garage before pulling out.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Now another thought...

    Since I transport my firearm stuffed between the seats in my car, I started thinking...

    "what if I get pulled over (for say a park light out, or whatever other trumped up reason a leo might come up with), and the officer ask's me to step out of the car". This means I would have to cover my firearm as I exit the vehicle and lock my vehicle, so that I am in compliance with the law. If I do not have the time or if it looks like I am trying to hide something in his eyes, things could go south for me in a hurry...

    I'm thinking our laws leave a bit to be desired.
    If ever asked to step out of vehicle by LEO, immediately lock your car door when doing so.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Covering is easy. I have a folded blanket that my dog sits on when in the truck. I just move it with one hand to cover what I don't want seen. No excessive body movement required as it sits in the passenger seat, right within casual reach of my right hand.

    If you do pull over, make sure you do so in a place and manner that you can leave your vehicle legally parked. If you step out and lock your vehicle the only way the officer can search it is if they obtain a warrant or have it impounded where it is then inventoried. An exception might be if a "drug dog" sniffs the car and indicates that there are drugs present. That is viewed as PC most cases.

    I used to know a guy that always locked his car, with the keys inside, when he got stopped. No way the officer could magically find an open door to search or find anything in "plain view". When he needed to get into the car again he merely retrieved his hidden key.

    The scenario you presented does make an argument for regularly checking your lights, even the license plate light, regularly. I regularly check my brake and turn signals by just looking for their reflection on the wall of my garage before pulling out.
    I was a mech and now work at parts store, better believe I always check my lights. I watched a "Cops" show and the officer during a traffic stop for a tail light out asked the driver if he had any weapons in the vehicle and he said yes in the glove box, and was told to step out of the vehicle. I always keep my jacket over my armrest's which hide my firearm, and I know that if you get out of the vehicle you lock it behind you. I just wanted to see what kind of responses I would get. Cops sometimes adjust your thinking as you progress through a stop as they did with this guy. He was getting out of the vehicle and the officer held the door preventing him from closing it. I also know, you dont roll your window down any further than you need to, to be able to talk to the officer, and hand him your requested documents. I have seen where a guy did this and they told him to roll the window down further, when he did not comply they told him to step out of his vehicle and again as he did, the officer held his door open, then searched his car. They didnt have consent from what was said on the show.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  14. #14
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    That cops show is so messed up but I can't stop watching to see how dumb and corrupt and screwed up some cops/suspects/victims on the show are. Anyways, to the point, just get what I got, a small nylon rectangular zippered case, that will fit nicely between seats and you could have it zipped just enough that you still can stick your hand in and grab the pow pow in case any trolls jump out from under a bridge. Then when the po pos light you up, just casually run your hand over to the zipper and walla, it's there no more!


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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenIsFaster View Post
    That cops show is so messed up but I can't stop watching to see how dumb and corrupt and screwed up some cops/suspects/victims on the show are. Anyways, to the point, just get what I got, a small nylon rectangular zippered case, that will fit nicely between seats and you could have it zipped just enough that you still can stick your hand in and grab the pow pow in case any trolls jump out from under a bridge. Then when the po pos light you up, just casually run your hand over to the zipper and walla, it's there no more!
    I actually find it hard to believe the show COPS is real. I cant imagine such an infrigment of peoples rights are let to be shown, and nothing is done about it, unless... as I also think, if the show is real, most people have become so complacent that they dont care, and the rest just dont even know.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  16. #16
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    I personally think it's a subliminal message. People watch that show and think it's the way you're supposed to behave.




    "Nah man, WTF, THAT AIN'T MINE, someone left that **** in my car man, that ain't me!"



    Anyways, here's a link to the pouch/case/whatever.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/SOFT-CASE-GUN-PI...item1e62195edc


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

  17. #17
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I actually find it hard to believe the show COPS is real. I cant imagine such an infrigment of peoples rights are let to be shown, and nothing is done about it, unless... as I also think, if the show is real, most people have become so complacent that they dont care, and the rest just dont even know.
    It's real in the sense that it uses real cops in real cities. It's also heavily edited and some is "scripted".

    I love the line that's always used, "Now's the time to tell me what went on. If you don't talk to me now, this will be your last chance for anyone to help you".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    I think you need to find a better way to carry your firearm secured, instead of trying to find an excuse not to.
    Like, duct taped to the forehead? :-)
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  19. #19
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammo View Post
    Like, duct taped to the forehead? :-)
    Or parts south of there...
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  20. #20
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Here's a twist. At times I travel with my firearm wedged between the seats, because of my seatbelt, while my family is in the vehicle. What if I were stopped and asked to get out of the vehicle, now I would be leaving a loaded, unsecured firearm in the vehicle with someone who does not have a CPL. What if it was just my daughter and I, and I was asked to step out of the vehicle, now I have a unsecured firearm in a vehicle with a minor.

    Maybe I'll just start leaving it holstered. I wish there were more options for the PT111 for holsters, esp a retention holster.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  21. #21
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    I give you.....

    3 Speed Holster!!!!!!!


    http://3speedholster.com/


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

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  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Here's a twist. At times I travel with my firearm wedged between the seats, because of my seatbelt, while my family is in the vehicle. What if I were stopped and asked to get out of the vehicle, now I would be leaving a loaded, unsecured firearm in the vehicle with someone who does not have a CPL. What if it was just my daughter and I, and I was asked to step out of the vehicle, now I have a unsecured firearm in a vehicle with a minor.

    Maybe I'll just start leaving it holstered. I wish there were more options for the PT111 for holsters, esp a retention holster.
    That is why:

    1. I keep it holstered.
    B. I have a lockbox in the truck.
    III. My wife has her CPL.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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  23. #23
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Officer: "Step out of the vehicle please..."

    Me: "Sorry officer, I cannot legally leave my vehicle with a loaded weapon in it since My kids are in the car with me and they don't have a CPL"
    Certified Glock Armorer

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