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HB 1205 Now in the Senate

Anubis

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ooghost1oo

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Jun 6, 2009
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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
I went up and spoke on behalf of the bill. One thing that kind of upset me was that Sen. Heath said that in his opinion, it's not too much to ask for people to get a CCW. And I had pointed in, both in my testimony today and in previous correspondence, that some people can't easily afford the fee. I guess Sen. Heath doesn't think that poor people deserve the same degree of self-defense that other people do.

Did anyone who was there actually point out that it is our RIGHT to carry as we see fit, and that the Bill of Rights declares that it SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED? If this was a talk of *****-footing around compromise and 'people can't afford the fees', etc., then the supporters of the bill missed the point. Missed the mark.

Next step is for someone to be charged with a misdemeanor and take it to the Supreme Court. The time is right for something like that.
 

mahkagari

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Did anyone who was there actually point out that it is our RIGHT to carry as we see fit, and that the Bill of Rights declares that it SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED?

Oops. Cause I'll bet they ain't ever heard that before. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Dang. If only you'd been there to make that statement. I can just see the applause and calls for order and the committee falling over eachother to end debate and call the question. And the opposition would spend the rest of their careers apologizing for not knowing what the meaning of the word "is" is.They'd make Mr. Smith Goes to Washington 2: The Reckoning out of that story. *sigh* And the kingdom was lost for the few wise words of a prophet.

Not trying to be mean-spirited. Just that the real work needs more than bumberstickerisms.
 

ooghost1oo

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Oops. Cause I'll bet they ain't ever heard that before. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Dang. If only you'd been there to make that statement. I can just see the applause and calls for order and the committee falling over eachother to end debate and call the question. And the opposition would spend the rest of their careers apologizing for not knowing what the meaning of the word "is" is.They'd make Mr. Smith Goes to Washington 2: The Reckoning out of that story. *sigh* And the kingdom was lost for the few wise words of a prophet.

Not trying to be mean-spirited. Just that the real work needs more than bumberstickerisms.

Yeah ... that's not cynical and hopeless or anything. Why point out the truth of the matter? It sounds too much like a bumper sticker.
 

since9

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
I think that would be Senate Majority Leader John Morse (D-Colorado Springs). A former police chief, very anti-2A, whom the voters of his district seem to love. He was the one who championed the law that restricted Colorado reciprocity to residents of the reciprocal states.

http://coloradosenate.org/home/feat...day-to-fight-against-gun-violence-in-colorado

Very good. Now all of us here in Colorado, in all countries and juridictions, know who to help engage the support of all other candidates against, and why.

Getting bad people out of office is not as simple as getting the voters in that individual's area of votership out of office. Sometimes (often, actually), sometimes the only way to change the mind of a nucklehead who's doing bad things against good people is to put the pile of dog-poo he's been dishing out to his voters on his own dinner plate.

John's an elitist. He figures because he's "been there, done that," earned his badge and a few higher positions that he's EARNED the right to carry while others have not. He's long since forgotten that the true leaders of our country never felt that way, and the signatures of many people here on OCDO contain the quotes of our Founding Fathers, attesting to the fact they believed, heart and soul, these rights were rights of the common man, regardless of status.

John wants these rights to be part of a status symbol, that due to the Police Protection Act he gets to concealed carry for life without having to pay the roughly $250 every five years because he "earned" it.

What he fails to understand, and miserably, is that right's aren't earned. They simply are. They're not his rights to dole out. They're our rights to have. ALL of our rights. We're born with them, our rights under the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the remaining Amendments of that Constitution.

That's the kind of elitist John Morse is, the retired ex-chief of police who wants only certain privaleged folks to enjoy the "rights" he enjoys.

I've been through as much as he has. Different services, same stuff. Lost friends, and for good causes. His elitism doesn't impress me. I'm a simple citizen. I'm not running for office, I do not believe that I should somehow enjoy greater rights than simply because I served my country. My rights should be the same as those of everyone from the President to the Wal-Mart stockboy.

John Morse believes differently! It's time our votes remind him that he's only as good as the least of his constituents, and that a right is NEVER "earned."
 
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av8tr1

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Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
62
Snip "He's long since forgotten that the true leaders of our country never felt that way, and the signatures of many people here on OCDO contain the quotes of our Founding Fathers, attesting to the fact they believed, heart and soul, these rights were rights of the common man, regardless of status.

What he fails to understand, and miserably, is that right's aren't earned. They simply are. They're not his rights to dole out. They're our rights to have. ALL of our rights. We're born with them, our rights under the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the remaining Amendments of that Constitution.

Since9,
Great points, I just want to point out one disagreement. These "Rights" have been earned. They were earned by the blood of our forefathers, the founders of this great nation and every Veteran since we first gave the finger to the crown.

I often wonder if they knew the sacrifices they made would lead to what our nation and it's government has become today do you think they still might have made the sacrifice?
 

since9

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Since9,
Great points, I just want to point out one disagreement. These "Rights" have been earned. They were earned by the blood of our forefathers, the founders of this great nation and every Veteran since we first gave the finger to the crown.

Good point of your own, and you're right, no disagreement here.

I often wonder if they knew the sacrifices they made would lead to what our nation and it's government has become today do you think they still might have made the sacrifice?

If service shouldn't be required for citizenship, it should certainly be required for entry into the "Political Corps."
 

Red Dawg

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Dec 29, 2010
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399
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Eastern VA, with too many people
Well heck. Sitting here thinking. Why can't we, as retired military have the same "privledge" of liftime concealed carry anywhere in the US, since we didn't fight for the rights of an individual state, we fought for our country.
 

JamesB

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Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
Well heck. Sitting here thinking. Why can't we, as retired military have the same "privledge" of liftime concealed carry anywhere in the US, since we didn't fight for the rights of an individual state, we fought for our country.

Sitting here thinking. Why cant active duty military carry on base? I mean they of course are trained, right? Hell, I know a guy just got in trouble for having live ammo on base without even having anything the ammo would fit into. It also was not a calibre that would fit into anything the military issues.

Are military members becoming just another "repressed minority?"
 

jhco50

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Aug 25, 2010
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Colorado

M-Taliesin

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Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
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Aurora, Colorado
What can you expect from a ******* democrat?

Howdy Gunslinger!
As an owner of several firearms, a gun rights supporter and a voter who has reached out to make contact with the General Assembly representatives from my district, and a Democrat, I take exception to your broad generalization of Democrats.

This isn't about a political party but about what the Constitution of the United States in general and the Bill of Rights in particular have to say regarding our rights. That isn't a partisan issue. And as has been noted elsewhere, a number of backers of the legislation are Democrats.

I'd like to see civil discourse on the topic rather than the sort of rhetoric that only serves to divide those of us with a passion for our Constitutional rights. There are supporters and advocates in both parties just as there are those who oppose gun rights in both parties. The bottom line is what is right, and speaking clearly and reasonably in defense of those rights.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

since9

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Messages
6,964
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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Well heck. Sitting here thinking. Why can't we, as retired military have the same "privledge" of liftime concealed carry anywhere in the US, since we didn't fight for the rights of an individual state, we fought for our country.

Here! Here!

Although I'd say it "...we fought to protect and serve the interests of the whole damn country, not just one city, county, or state."

As for the trust issue, I sincerely doubt any city, county, or state in our Union was entrusted with anywhere near the firepower with which we were entrusted: Grenades? Howitzers? Tanks? A-10s?

Nukes?

Give me a break!

Furthermore, I don't know how far back a cop's background check goes, but mine went back to when I was ten years old, and yes, they did interview neighbors from back then, as well as roommates, teachers, even college professors for pretty much each and every year since then to my ripe old mid-20's age when I first entered the service.

"But NO! You were never POLICE officers, so "you haven't the requisite training for lifetime CC/OC carry!"

Yeah, right. Whatever. I've qualified on more twice as many weapons systems as most LEO will ever become exposed throughout their entire careers.

Nevertheless, Red Dawg, you're right - it's not a contest. It's a respect issue. They go through extensive training, we go through extensive training. They serve their community and get to OC/CC throughout the entire country. We serve our entire county and get to OC/CC NOWHERE except as provided by the same law governing everyone who's never touched, much less trained, on a weapons system in their entire life.

Ain't that a load of back-end yak bricks.
 
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Gunslinger

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Mar 6, 2008
Messages
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Free, Colorado, USA
Howdy Gunslinger!
As an owner of several firearms, a gun rights supporter and a voter who has reached out to make contact with the General Assembly representatives from my district, and a Democrat, I take exception to your broad generalization of Democrats.

This isn't about a political party but about what the Constitution of the United States in general and the Bill of Rights in particular have to say regarding our rights. That isn't a partisan issue. And as has been noted elsewhere, a number of backers of the legislation are Democrats.

I'd like to see civil discourse on the topic rather than the sort of rhetoric that only serves to divide those of us with a passion for our Constitutional rights. There are supporters and advocates in both parties just as there are those who oppose gun rights in both parties. The bottom line is what is right, and speaking clearly and reasonably in defense of those rights.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

It is a matter of balance. The VAST majority of democraps are anti-gun and generally anti-Constitution. Those who were honorable have been replaced by Republicans via the 2010 elections. The VAST majority of Republicans are pro-gun and Constitutionalist. There are notable exceptions either way. However, in CO, the democrap leadership is Denver/Boulder based leftwing, and that includes Hick. Morse is a pos and can be beaten next year. We need to make it a priority, and if you are indeed an enlightened (and endangered species) democrat, you will understand and support us in this effort. Personally, the idea of identifying oneself with the party of pelosi, obooba, Hanoi john kerry, that pos marxist schumer, michael moore, the Arkansas Sow, the former draft dodger in chief, ad nauseum, makes my stomache churn.
 

Gunslinger

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Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
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Free, Colorado, USA
Very good. Now all of us here in Colorado, in all countries and juridictions, know who to help engage the support of all other candidates against, and why.

Getting bad people out of office is not as simple as getting the voters in that individual's area of votership out of office. Sometimes (often, actually), sometimes the only way to change the mind of a nucklehead who's doing bad things against good people is to put the pile of dog-poo he's been dishing out to his voters on his own dinner plate.

John's an elitist. He figures because he's "been there, done that," earned his badge and a few higher positions that he's EARNED the right to carry while others have not. He's long since forgotten that the true leaders of our country never felt that way, and the signatures of many people here on OCDO contain the quotes of our Founding Fathers, attesting to the fact they believed, heart and soul, these rights were rights of the common man, regardless of status.

John wants these rights to be part of a status symbol, that due to the Police Protection Act he gets to concealed carry for life without having to pay the roughly $250 every five years because he "earned" it.

What he fails to understand, and miserably, is that right's aren't earned. They simply are. They're not his rights to dole out. They're our rights to have. ALL of our rights. We're born with them, our rights under the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the remaining Amendments of that Constitution.

That's the kind of elitist John Morse is, the retired ex-chief of police who wants only certain privaleged folks to enjoy the "rights" he enjoys.

I've been through as much as he has. Different services, same stuff. Lost friends, and for good causes. His elitism doesn't impress me. I'm a simple citizen. I'm not running for office, I do not believe that I should somehow enjoy greater rights than simply because I served my country. My rights should be the same as those of everyone from the President to the Wal-Mart stockboy.

John Morse believes differently! It's time our votes remind him that he's only as good as the least of his constituents, and that a right is NEVER "earned."

He can take the badge he "earned" and shove it up his ass. If it weren't for the low class district he represents with their 4th grade education--those that aren't illegal immigrants, he'd be out on his ass anyway. Redistricting may help get rid of this pos.
 

M-Taliesin

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Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
It is a matter of balance. The VAST majority of democraps are anti-gun and generally anti-Constitution. Those who were honorable have been replaced by Republicans via the 2010 elections. The VAST majority of Republicans are pro-gun and Constitutionalist. There are notable exceptions either way. However, in CO, the democrap leadership is Denver/Boulder based leftwing, and that includes Hick. Morse is a pos and can be beaten next year. We need to make it a priority, and if you are indeed an enlightened (and endangered species) democrat, you will understand and support us in this effort. Personally, the idea of identifying oneself with the party of pelosi, obooba, Hanoi john kerry, that pos marxist schumer, michael moore, the Arkansas Sow, the former draft dodger in chief, ad nauseum, makes my stomache churn.

Howdy Again!
Firstly, I'd like to see some sort of statistics to support your allegation, highlighted in bold in my quote or your response. So far as I am aware, our military has Democrats serving in uniform right along with Republicans in the service of our country. Democrats have died in war and shed blood for our country right along with Republicans. They all take an oath to defend the Constution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic. LEO's across our nation come from both major political parties, and members of both groups have died in the service of their communities. The blood of all our patriots deserves the respect and highest honor, not just the Republican ones. Therefore I view your remarks as unwarranted and irresponsible. Democrats have fought for our rights in combat, spilled blood across the world's battlefields, and deserve better from those of us who enjoy these freedoms they've defended.

The belittlement of others, name-calling and insulting rhetoric do not represent folks in the pro-gun movement well and only serve to support erroneous ideas about who are advocates for gun rights. Snarky comments about specific political figures to justify condemnation of an entire group of people (i.e. Democrats) are hardly productive. And as I indicated earlier, to paint an entire group with the same broad brush is unreasonable.

I seem to recall that the Brady Bill was sponsored by Republicans after Jim Brady was left badly injured by John Hinkley in his attempted murder of President Ronald Reagan. The Brady bill was hardly something that can be considered pro-gun, and sponsored by Republicans.

That being said, as I mentioned earlier, this is not a partisan issue. It is encoded in our Bill of Rights, and in Article 2 section 13 of the Colorado Constitution.

A political party, any political party, is going to establish a platform based on members. Therefore, only when such constituents become part of the politcial process does a platform become cohesive based on the notions of the members. When democrats, such as myself, work within the party system to voice support for gun rights, it ultimately has an impact on platform. The more who step forward to state their views on party platform, the more likely contrary platform specifics are to be changed for the better. From what I read in your response, it would appear you'd rather the Democratic party remain favorable to gun control legislation rather than having members, such as myself, work to improve their platform. Evidently, according to what you have said, my rights to gun ownership as a Democrat cause you digestive distress. How unfortunate. But I am not alone in my position, as there are a whole bunch of democrats who have their CC just as there are Republicans. Therefore, I am fairly confident that members of both parties have advocates within them for our Constutional rights.

Having failed to encourage civil discourse, I will choose to abandon this discussion at this time.

Thank you for your views, but I do not believe them to be helpful when all that is offered is hyperbole and insult.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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