Outragious Law Enforcement Training

I just found this on another forum and thought we might be interested in it here. This is the most outragious thing I have ever seen openly advertised. It looks like they are training to take firearms away from legal carriers.

http://oja.state.wi.us/news_detail.asp?onid=5503&linkid=&locid=97

Office on Violence Against Women....

Rather WAVE like.

Seems like it's focused on "batterers", not the public at large.

The brochure says the training is about taking firearms from batterers, but overall, while that may seem like a good idea for law enforcement (people who batter others are not "law abiding"), it does appear to have the potential for abuse. The brochure also says the participants will be taught Wisconsin and Federal Firearms Laws. Hopefully, they will stress the lawfulness of open carry.

Domestic violence calls are some of the most dangerous assignments that law enforcement faces. I am all for disarming those who are armed and who also are enraged and have no self-control. I am not however in favor of disarming the "victim". Better to remove the perpetrator from the location and let the victim remain armed.

My fear is this:

With the increasing number of videos and reports on the questionable judgment by police officers, I think this will be an excuse to try and disarm law abiding citizens. I am not implying that all officers will do this, but the ones that will are going to do it with style!

I am 6'3" tall, 225 lbs., tattooed from neck to ankle, have a Mohawk, and I generally wear jeans and a cut off t-shirt. The average person looks at me and thinks that I am some deviant. However, those that take the time to sit and talk to me see that I am nothing like my appearance.

So what happens when I am stopped and disarmed for suspicion because some officer went through training that said it was OK?

This training is all but cut off from guys like me who are experienced firearms instructors and who would have an objective input on what the training might contain. Unless we can get onto a team that involves a law enforcement officer.

They still have to get into ones home to disarm that person. those " from my cold dead hands " types - know how to prevent this.

Glock34 said:

They still have to get into ones home to disarm that person. those " from my cold dead hands " types - know how to prevent this.

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I was thinking more along the lines of when I am carrying out in public.

CalicoJack10 said:

I was thinking more along the lines of when I am carrying out in public.

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That's simple 10 squad cars & 18 trigger happy Ocifers surround that person & them off the guy. Stange each one of those 18 ocifers will have the same story...He went for his gun so for ocifers safety we had to implant 86 rounds into his corpse with an additional 37 rounds that missed...the media will report it as a violent person with Tat's get Suicide by cop since the kool aid drinking Liberal media is unable to think for it's self & get the actual story.

DePere cops just last week wasted a Suicidal guy with a Shot Gun, what happened to Protect and serve ? I guess they decided a Taser pistol or the new Taser Shotgun rounds were not the right tool's to use.

Reading the Training Brochure

To pr ovide pa r t i c i pan t s wi th an unde r s t and ing of s t a t e and f eder a l l aws ; r e cogni z e the
dang e r s pos ed*by f i r e a rms in t he hands of ba t t e r e r s to of f i c e r s, v i ct ims and the commun i ty, en ‐
for c e t he f i r e a rms l a w s and i d ent i fy suc c e s s ful enforcement s t ra t e g i e s , and mode l the *be s t
pr a c t i c e s i n our prof e s s ions .

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What is there to be outraged about. As I see it the first sentence could be a good thing. An understanding the State and Federal Laws.

How many times are OC'er's hassled by LEO's that DON'T know the law.

Perhaps too much is being read into too little available information. *

Silly Open Carriers... Tricks are for progs... This is more of the same old story. Slip this in under the guise of some noble effort and watch as it morphs out of control. This is just one more in a long line of infuriating attempts at controlling the population. It just gives them one more crime to fit the stop.

hardballer said:

Silly Open Carriers... Tricks are for progs... This is more of the same old story. Slip this in under the guise of some noble effort and watch as it morphs out of control. This is just one more in a long line of infuriating attempts at controlling the population. It just gives them one more crime to fit the stop.

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I agree, 100%.

The idea that this training is all about law is the same thing it has been for a long time. A cover for the idea that they will be using this training against law abiding citizens. We would all do well to remember that an officer's ability to arrest someone is based entirely on their interpretation of the law at the time of the arrest.

They do not have to prove you are guilty of something in order to cause problems in you life, all they need to be able to do is articulate a reason for their arrest. Then they have an indefinite amount of time to hold your side arm, let the DA try and turn you into a criminal, commit subsequent arrests that lend themselves to making you a habitual offender, and on, and on, and on................

Then POOF, your life is over!

And again, this is not all law enforcement, but all it takes is that one prick cop, and then cops will back cops, and that is all it takes.

Wonder who is underwritting the cost of this? Taxpayers or an outside foundation? When I see the term "for advocates" I get an itchy feeling in the back of my neck. Look for the anti-domestic violence groups to testify against Constitutional Carry legislation. Wonder if ol' Jeri is going to attend the training? She is an advocate. A highly paid ineffective one, but still a self declared advocate.

Flipper said:

Wonder who is underwritting the cost of this? Taxpayers or an outside foundation? When I see the term "for advocates" I get an itchy feeling in the back of my neck. Look for the anti-domestic violence groups to testify against Constitutional Carry legislation. Wonder if ol' Jeri is going to attend the training? She is an advocate. A highly paid ineffective one, but still a self declared advocate.

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Glad I wasn't being paranoid thinking the same thing. The "Advocates" raised the hackles on my neck immediately. Could be Jeri, Brady Campaign or who knows. Someone should tell these people that if unwarranted detentions/arrests start happening it will get expensive for the police and cities.

Geez, if you'd all stop gossiping and doing a little investigation

http://oja.wi.gov/section.asp?linkid=711&locid=97

Justice System Training Program

OJA's Justice System Training (JST) Program, funded through Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) discretionary and formula grants, provides specialized training on domestic violence and sexual assault to law enforcement, prosecutors and court personnel. Training is offered free of charge and can be customized to meet the unique needs of your agency. The JST Advisory Committee plays a crucial role as it guides and directs the programs efforts to provide timely and accurate training to the justice system statewide. Contact us for more information about custom training programs.

Also see VAWA Resources

Current Justice System Training

Firearms Surrender Statewide Training - This training will:

* Provide participants with an understanding of state and federal laws;
* Recognize the dangers posed by firearms in the hands of batterers to officers, victims and the community;
* Enforce the firearms laws and identify successful enforcement strategies, and;
* Model the best practices in our professions

Who Should Attend: Law Enforcement, Prosecutors, Judges, Court Commissioners and Advocates. Participants are encouraged to register as a team. Teams MUST include at least one law enforcement officer. Law enforcement can register individually and will receive priority registration.
Location
Weston, WI

Date/Time
May 17, 2011

More information
Brochure, Register

hit the wrong button too fast

Like I was saying, if you'd do a little investigation you might find the answers you were looking for. It took me all of three minutes. This isn't about taking you down, or taking away your guns, its about how an officer or advocate deals with a tense domestic violence situation. I think most of you know that a DV is one of the most dangerous situations a cop can walk in to.

No, it's really about alliances that will be used against us. Why isn't the subject of this conference, costing taxpayers police overtime to replace the cops taken off the streets to attend, included in the cops "basic training?" Why are "advocates" invited to participate? They don't have to disarm participants in a domestic call.

The guy standing next to ol' Jer is one of WAVE's men of the year.

http://badgerherald.com/news/2009/04/22/group_shows_effects_.php

WAVE's only woman of the year is from the Wisconsin Coalition Against Domestic Violence [Page 2].

http://www.waveedfund.org/uploads//WAVE_Report_Spring_2010.pdf

WAVE has the domestic violence bases covered. The Ms. Barry mentioned in the Badger Herald article is involved here:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Domestic-Abuse-Intervention-Services/145587461582?sk=wall

From their promo materials, it looks like this is geared toward taking firearms from people who have been convicted of domestic abuse or are under a restraining order.
Someone could also email the person/address given on the registration form for clarification...

The goal of this training is to:
•Provide participants with an understanding of state and federal laws;
•Recognize the dangers posed by firearms in the hands of batterers to officers, victims and the community;
•Enforce the firearms laws and identify successful enforcement strategies, and
•Model best practices.

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Points 1, 3, & 4 sound encouraging from our point of view - maybe they'll learn the :cuss: laws & how to deal with citizens.

Of course, we all know that no law will stop someone from having a gun if they want to,
and no restraining order will stop a batterer from attacking. (See my sig for LawDog's take on that.)

Anyone want to put together a team (do we have a LEO on board?), or anyone else game to go as an individual & we'll be individuals together?
They don't say the public is prohibited from attending, nor do they say their meeting is restricted from public participation.
According to Google, it's a 3 hour drive for me.

ETA:

Costs to participate in this training are funded by the Office of Justice Assistance through GTEA #2005‐WE‐AX‐0009 funds from the Office of Violence Against Women, U.S. Department of Justice

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I'm certainly against violence against women, and I advocate that women protect themselves.
Guess I qualify to go to the conference.
Even if they squawk at using federal (tax) money to have a citizen sit in on the session & have a couple meals, I could pack a couple sandwiches...

Actually, it might be Good For Them (heh, heh) to have questions like "how do you ensure you're taking the property of the accused, rather than of his victim, who will need it to defend herself against him when he gets released?"

MKEgal said:

Points 1, 3, & 4 sound encouraging from our point of view - maybe they'll learn the :cuss: laws.

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Not sure about you...but after my encounter with Cudahy.....I dont have a lot of faith in that.

It would be nice....but I aint holdin my breath.

LR Yote

Today DV offenders , Tomorrow Law Abiding tax payers. You give LE an inch they will take a Mile.

I just read the 2nd Amend , says nothing about DV offenders NOT having the right to Keep & Bear arms.

Every law that gets passed, just takes away more of our rights. Of course some Women are all too quick to get a restraining order on some guy that cursed her out for cheating on him...Now he get's his guns taken away for the duration of the order. I call BS.

When was the last time a Restraining order saved some man or womans life ??? It's a piece of damm paper & the cops are only 10 minutes away from enforcing it. If some violent scum bag is going to kill someone ,issuing a restraining order & taking away his or her guns will NOT prevent his or her victim from kicking the bucket.

How many various laws are there on the books right now that define who can & can't own a gun. I will tell you how many... TOO MANY !

Edited to add. Anyone man or woman that uses violent force on his or her Mate or anyone is a scum bag.

the permanent classification of someone as a DV offender for a trivial argument is beyond unconstitutional in my humble opinion, being classified as a DV follows you for along long time., like being wrongfully accused of Sexual assault, that crap never goes away & people are way to quick to accuse someone of these things. Once labeled no more guns.

I am almost required to respond to the points in this conversation.

I did not post this as a way to criticize anything but the frighteningly candid nature of this training. As far as those that have to respond to DV, they definitely have my respect, if I had to deal with that I would likely slap the crap out of the guys that beat on their wives. So for that purpose, this training is amazing, and I think that it should be had by all LEO's.

However, the fact that the description is so vague, and it is cut off to the majority of the general public, scares the crap out of me. I have been to many LE training seminars and gatherings, so to be intentionally held out of something like this really makes me think that there is something to hide.

Just an opinion, unfortunately, I tend to not have a filter between my brain and my mouth, so in some cases I have to clarify.