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Thread: Would OC have deterred?

  1. #1
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    Would OC have deterred?

    As a medical sales rep in the trauma/orthopedic area I spend most of my time around hospitals in the Dallas area. After feeling very uncomfortable and unsafe in a few situations over the past few years (especially running around downtown at night in scrubs) I decided to get my CHL (Concealed Handgun License) last year. I usually have my gun in my bag and did like usual this day. In between appointments I went to meet a friend at Starbucks close to downtown. I walked in and noticed a young (gangster) man sitting by himself, as well as an older lady sitting a few seats away. As I walked by and the young man looked right at me and then turned away. I sat in the corner and got out my laptop to try and get some work done via email and waited on my friend. Not 15 minutes went by when the woman stood up and said my purse is gone. That guy stole my purse! At this time he was long gone, he must have got up and left 5 minutes ago and unfortunately there was nothing we could do.

    In thinking about this more in depth, I can't help but wonder that if this man saw me walk by, and then looked down to see a Sig P226 Tacops holstered at my side, how would this senario have turned out? As being a member of this site, I think you already know what my answer would be....

  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Thank you for spending what was probably an inordinate amount on an overpriced (but stylish) "carry purse". I'm sure Galco, (or whoever) was very happy to have your business, and will be THRILLED to find that your own actions have forced you to become a repeat customer because you lost your purse to a slippery thug.

    And thank you for having such fantastic Situational Awareness that you let some thug (who you DID notice, but chose to ignore) rob you of not only your purse, but your firearm as well.

    I'm sure he is the envy of his Jenning- and HiPoint-toting thug buddies now that he has a shiny new Sig Sauer. You've done a service to your community by helping to boost this poor disadvantaged youth's low self-esteem.

    <sarcasm OFF>

    I hope you learned your lesson, which is that "carry purses" are not only a HUGE waste of money, but are a DANGEROUS and IRRESPONSIBLE way to carry, and that Situational Awareness is your MOST IMPORTANT weapon when it comes to self-defense and personal safety.

    I don't care if you OC or CC.

    But if you're going to carry, keep it where it belongs--ON YOUR BODY...

    Not in a purse, backpack, or briefcase...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 03-13-2011 at 11:33 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Thank you for spending what was probably an inordinate amount on an overpriced (but stylish) "carry purse". I'm sure Galco, (or whoever) was very happy to have your business, and will be THRILLED to find that your own actions have forced you to become a repeat customer because you lost your purse to a slippery thug.

    And thank you for having such fantastic Situational Awareness that you let some thug (who you DID notice, but chose to ignore) rob you of not only your purse, but your firearm as well.

    I'm sure he is the envy of his Jenning- and HiPoint-toting thug buddies now that he has a shiny new Sig Sauer. You've done a service to your community by helping to boost this poor disadvantaged youth's low self-esteem.

    <sarcasm OFF>

    I hope you learned your lesson, which is that "carry purses" are not only a HUGE waste of money, but are a DANGEROUS and IRRESPONSIBLE way to carry, and that Situational Awareness is your MOST IMPORTANT weapon when it comes to self-defense and personal safety.

    I don't care if you OC or CC.

    But if you're going to carry, keep it where it belongs--ON YOUR BODY...

    Not in a purse, backpack, or briefcase...
    You might want to re-read the OP...... Just saying, since you like to comment about "Situational Awareness"..........

  4. #4
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    It may have. There's really no way to know, but assuming he saw it, I would say he probably would have gone somewhere else to look for an easy target.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I mis-read it. I thought when she said "My purse is gone", she meant the woman was talking about the OP's purse...

    Sorry about that.

    Still, I maintain, a purse is a VERY bad place to keep your gun...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  6. #6
    Regular Member Felix's Avatar
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    Which purse was taken? The OP's or the Friend's?

    Can't be sure from the way this story is written. Plus the absence of any quote marks makes the "my" reference ambiguous.

    Truthfully, I doubt seeing a P226 when you walked by would have made much difference, no matter which person's purse was actually lifted. Most customers aren't terribly observant.
    Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Dreamer, read the post first, before making stupid observations. He said he's in scrubs. Hard to carry concealed in scrubs. Reckon if it were me I'd get a little .32 cal or some such to put in an ankle holster. As for the lady's purse being snatched, who knows if opencarry would have prevented it. My guess is probably so.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Opinion from the other side of the fence.

    No, OCing would not have made a bit of difference.

    Gangster-looking dude knows you are not going to shoot at him for snatching some old lady's purse. He also knew that you were not going to keep a hairy eye on him, even though you id'd him as sketchy when you first saw him.

    The presence of your handgun would not have made a bit of difference because you were not willing to act on your "gut feeling" that something was not right, and your situational awareness went from "Hey, that dude looks like he might be a problem" to "let me bury my head and eyeballs in my laptop even though there is some gangster-looking dude sitting over there."

    Maybe if you had kept an eye on him the decision to swipe the purse would have been discarded because there was an alert potential witness present. Or maybe you might have wandered over to the old lady and said something to her about noticing how her purse was ripe for the snatching and suggesting she position it in a safer place.

    Yes, I even stand next to shopping carts until the owner of the purse in the kiddy-seat comes back from getting whatever it was they wanted and tell them that I was standing there to make sure nobody snatched their purse. Some have asked if I was undercover store security (Sure! Right! With me OCing?) and some have told me I was a busybody. Doesn't matter. They still have their purse, I feel good, and if there was a potential thief they decided not to steal that purse.

    stay safe.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Felix's Avatar
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    Ref Skid's thoughts...+1.

    Speaking of that Paul, has your trial date been rescheduled yet on the weapons charge?

    I want to come down and join the crowd providing moral and visual support in the courtroom. And see for myself just how this prosecutor was able to spin a finger wagging into a criminal brandishing charge with a court trial.
    Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W

  10. #10
    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    There is nothing wrong with bag/purse carry IF you have a very sturdy strap AND you wear it across your chest and NOT off your shoulder. My bag strap is off of a laptop bag and you can carry my 300lb carcass by it and my bag will stay firmly in MY control.



    When I take my bag off and set it down, it is away from traffic or between me and the wall/wife or I loop the strap through the chair back and re-clip it so they have to drag the chair with it. That gives me time to grab them/it before they can be out of there.
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    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

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  11. #11
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    I despise the judgmentalism of those who say that CC is the only carry that makes tactical sense. Likewise, I despise the judgmentalism of OC advocates who rail against the valid carry choices that aren't open.

    That being said, HeroHog, the only reasonable way for you to carry is a pair of cross-draw shoulder holsters mounted on bandoleers full of ominous-looking ammo!

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I despise the judgmentalism of those who say that CC is the only carry that makes tactical sense. Likewise, I despise the judgmentalism of OC advocates who rail against the valid carry choices that aren't open.

    That being said, HeroHog, the only reasonable way for you to carry is a pair of cross-draw shoulder holsters mounted on bandoleers full of ominous-looking ammo!
    eye95-

    That IS a shoulder holster (see the strap going across his shoulder?), and it has all sorts of ominous-looking ammunition - just mounted inside to protect against the solid silver bullets from getting tarnished.

    Speedy and I both have problems distinguishing lycanthropes from misanthropes, so come prepared for both.

    stay safe.

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    Maybe I was not clear. Sorry, ADD kicked in. This was not intended to start a debate on how to carry, but more of a deterrent issue. But for the tards that want to know...Some days I have a belly banded PM9 pulled up under my left arm. That has been the only way I have found to have a 9mm or better firearm while in scrubs. However in Texas, we cannot enter any property that has a valid 30.06 sign, and unfortunately, many hospitals in the area here do. Therefore if I know I am going to a hospital that does post, I sometimes do not strap on the belly band and just bring my Sig or Glock in my WORK BAG. Before I go into a 30.06 posted hospital, i leave the gun in my truck, which I have found is easier than stripping down to get my belly band off in my front seat!

    Back on point... at least 40% of criminals say they would not have committed a crime if they knew the person was armed. In school I learned that statistic was higher, around 70%. (Psych and Criminology major) Here's one link I found http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/9/Gun-control.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    eye95-

    That IS a shoulder holster (see the strap going across his shoulder?), and it has all sorts of ominous-looking ammunition - just mounted inside to protect against the solid silver bullets from getting tarnished.

    Speedy and I both have problems distinguishing lycanthropes from misanthropes, so come prepared for both.

    stay safe.
    uh oh.

    I shall avoid both of you during full moons. Not saying that I undergo any personality changes during full moons...not saying I don't either.

  15. #15
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Thank you for spending what was probably an inordinate amount on an overpriced (but stylish) "carry purse". I'm sure Galco, (or whoever) was very happy to have your business, and will be THRILLED to find that your own actions have forced you to become a repeat customer because you lost your purse to a slippery thug.

    And thank you for having such fantastic Situational Awareness that you let some thug (who you DID notice, but chose to ignore) rob you of not only your purse, but your firearm as well.

    I'm sure he is the envy of his Jenning- and HiPoint-toting thug buddies now that he has a shiny new Sig Sauer. You've done a service to your community by helping to boost this poor disadvantaged youth's low self-esteem.

    <sarcasm OFF>

    I hope you learned your lesson, which is that "carry purses" are not only a HUGE waste of money, but are a DANGEROUS and IRRESPONSIBLE way to carry, and that Situational Awareness is your MOST IMPORTANT weapon when it comes to self-defense and personal safety.

    I don't care if you OC or CC.

    But if you're going to carry, keep it where it belongs--ON YOUR BODY...

    Not in a purse, backpack, or briefcase...
    You blew it. It was the older woman's purse. Not his.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    a purse is a VERY bad place to keep your gun...
    +1

    They're called "purse snatchers" for a reason.

    To the OP's question; would OC have prevented this?

    Probably, but I don't have a crystal ball. OC seems to prevent everything else. When was the last time you heard of an OCer's purse being snatched? Or someone's purse being snatched who was standing near an OCer'? OR someone's purse being snatched who was in the same building as an OCer? I'll give you some time to try finding even one example...

    We cannot examine what did not happen, but the fact that did not happen speaks volumes.
    Last edited by ixtow; 03-16-2011 at 03:11 PM.

  17. #17
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    Eye95 turns into a gorilla every full moon, and all he does is munch carrots, so he is no danger during this time.

    I am willing to bet that OC would have detered the criminal. He may have thought "cop" and left. Normal everyday people tend to not notice OC. The ones who do seem to be LEO's, criminals, fellow gun carriers, nervous types, and really insecure people.

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    Most of the time, I feel it deters folks with ill intent.
    But those who are deterred, are usually reasonably sane, rational people whatever their intent. They seek week, unarmed prey more often than not. They have no real deathwish to try their luck with someone capable of blowing them away.

    The less rational ones,however..there's no telling. The world is full of Darwin Award candidates..consider the case a few yr.s back of armed robbers trying to rob a GUN SHOP....that one did not end well at all for the perps..

  19. #19
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    There is not a yes or no on this subject. But carrying on your person in either form would likely have prevented the loss of your firearm.

    The key here: situational awareness.

    Simply sitting in a manner that does not allow others the ability to access your purse is a deterrent. Being aware of those around you can be another deterrent.

    Example: When said thug makes eye contact, nod your head to let them know you've noticed them. Take a mental picture as much as possible. Get the super creepy feeling, send a text message to yourself with the description. That provides a date/time stamp and description should a worst-case ever occur once you're awareness is heightened. I have my wife practicing this now and she loves it!

    I go so far that when someone gives me that ultra creepy vibe, I head to the restroom and wash my hands (leaving fingerprints behind) and come out with my camera phone at the ready. I walk by and snap a picture. I actually had someone get irate over this in St. Louis, Mo a while back. Fortunately the restaurant management said it was a good thing as they knew he frequently robbed people in parking lots due to his bragging in the business.

    A friend of mine has a laptop with a webcam mounted to the top, but he points it away and lets the video run on the door while he's in places with the "ugly" crowd.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 03-18-2011 at 10:09 PM.

  20. #20
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    Last time I walked into a convenience store 3 young ne'er-do-wells quickly exited after they saw me walk in. My guess is that the alleged thief would have just left, but you never know. I don't think it is a fear that they will be shot; it is the suspicion that you might be a LEO.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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  21. #21
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    I think it would deter in more cases than not. Reason: "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor." - Robert A. Heinlein

    An openly-carried firearm is symbolically representative of "violence, naked force."

    Aside from my time in the military, which is similar, but different, I've only one case of encountering a no-kidding situation that was going to materialize, but didn't. Kid, mid-20s was carrying a case of beer through the checkout line way after hours. He was directly in front of me, and didn't see that I was carrying until he laid the case on the belt, whereapon he gave a start. About the same time the lady said, "Sorry, but we can't sell beer at this hour."

    He left it and walked out. I discovered he was planning on stealing it anyway, as he was waiting for me in the parking lot. He asked me if I was a cop or store security, and when I said "No," he started swearing and revealed he was about to run out of the store with the case of beer, but saw I was carrying and left it there instead.

    So, is OC a deterrant? It was in that case. Then again, he was a drunk opportunist who just wanted to keep partying with his friends, not a hardened criminal.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    It may have deterred him it may have not.

    There are a million complications a firearms brings into the situation:

    perhaps he had a concealed handgun of his own, and decided that he wanted yours too, things could of gotten deadly.

    perhaps he may of been scared where he just went somewhere else to look for an easy target

    perhaps, you were oc and he didn't notice and he went for it a struggle ensued and he goes for your gun

    perhaps your were oc and he didn't notice and gets away with it anyway

    You see where this is going.....


    The main purpose of OC is not to deter crime around you but rather as a mean of self defense. I doubt drawing on a purse snatcher on a crowded bus would of went over well for either of you.
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    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

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