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Thread: 2 open carry questions.(no "open carry" ordinances & stopped by police for OC)

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    2 open carry questions.(no "open carry" ordinances & stopped by police for OC)

    Hey guys, I'm in virginia, i need some advice/answers. My first question is about town ordinances. Are towns allowed to impose "no open carry" ordinances? I've heard this before but I've also heard that towns cannot trump state laws

    My second question is about getting stopped by the police soley for open carrying. From what I've gathered the best thing I can do is this, ask if I am being detained, if I am then I should ask why, and if the reason has anything to do with carrying a gun then I should state that I am invoking my right to remain silent and not say a word regardless of what they tell me.

    Also, what if they do not give me a straight answer about detainment? Such as telling me "maybe" or "we'll see", am I allowed to walk away if I get an answer like that?

    I'd appreciate any answers, I'm really trying to get my facts down before I open carry every day.

    Thanks, jack.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Regarding local OC ordinances in Va - nope, no can do.

    15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.



    Only time an officer would not answer my question directly regarding detainment was when a female Sgt said, "Before I answer that I'd like to talk to you." We didn't talk, I walked. Hard to make an advance determination, but I do think most LEOs are going to give you a straight answer on that.
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    Question 1: Town ordinances do not "trump" state law.

    Question 2: If you are approached by an officer and he/she has a problem with your open carry inform them of the second ammendment and ask them to contact state ploice cause in my experence a state trooper will ensure state laws are upheld.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacketed View Post
    Question 1: Town ordinances do not "trump" state law.

    Question 2: If you are approached by an officer and he/she has a problem with your open carry inform them of the second ammendment and ask them to contact state ploice cause in my experence a state trooper will ensure state laws are upheld.
    Actually and such local ordinance left on the books in Va. would be in violation of the state code - generally very easy to get removed.

    I have never known a VSP trooper to respond/ step in to a "discussion" regarding right to carry laws and certainly not in another primary jurisdiction. Va. LEA do not hold court on the street - neither should we presume to do so.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot2A View Post
    Also, what if they do not give me a straight answer about detainment? Such as telling me "maybe" or "we'll see", am I allowed to walk away if I get an answer like that?
    If you don't get a straight answer, just begin to walk away. Warn them before hand if you'd like. If they have enough to detain you, they will make it clear that they are placing you under detention. If not, you keep walking. I would very much want to have that conversation recorded.

    I'd cite article I section 13 before the 2A, but I don't think it'd actually get me anywhere.
    Last edited by t33j; 03-15-2011 at 09:48 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    If you don't get a straight answer, just begin to walk away. Warn them before hand if you'd like. If they have enough to detain you, they will make it clear that they are placing you under detention. If not, you keep walking. I would very much want to have that conversation recorded.

    I'd cite article I section 13 before the 2A, but I don't think it'd actually get me anywhere.
    Also, get and carry a small recorder. I like to make sure the Officer sees it and if told to turn it off, just say no!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Also, get and carry a small recorder. I like to make sure the Officer sees it and if told to turn it off, just say no!
    Contemptible - I say contemptible.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacketed View Post
    Question 2: If you are approached by an officer and he/she has a problem with your open carry inform them of the second ammendment and ask them to contact state ploice cause in my experence a state trooper will ensure state laws are upheld.
    Yah...good luck with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot2A View Post
    My second question is about getting stopped by the police soley for open carrying. From what I've gathered the best thing I can do is this, ask if I am being detained, if I am then I should ask why, and if the reason has anything to do with carrying a gun then I should state that I am invoking my right to remain silent and not say a word regardless of what they tell me.

    Also, what if they do not give me a straight answer about detainment? Such as telling me "maybe" or "we'll see", am I allowed to walk away if I get an answer like that?
    This is one reason you don't ask an LEO, "Am I being detained?". Better to stated it this way; "Why am I being detained?". The difference is the keyword "why" because it begs an answer to your question. The other way can simply be ignored by the officer. He is virtually forced to tell you whether or not you are being detained when you begin your question with "why".
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This is one reason you don't ask an LEO, "Am I being detained?". Better to stated it this way; "Why am I being detained?". The difference is the keyword "why" because it begs an answer to your question. The other way can simply be ignored by the officer. He is virtually forced to tell you whether or not you are being detained when you begin your question with "why".
    Why?

    How?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This is one reason you don't ask an LEO, "Am I being detained?". Better to stated it this way; "Why am I being detained?". The difference is the keyword "why" because it begs an answer to your question. The other way can simply be ignored by the officer. He is virtually forced to tell you whether or not you are being detained when you begin your question with "why".
    Well, let's just look at how that turns out. Anybody know of a good example that could be looked at?

    stay safe.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, let's just look at how that turns out. Anybody know of a good example that could be looked at?

    stay safe.
    This was a particularly stupid cop and the kid really yanked his chain too long (although it is fun) . Virginia does have a bumper crop of this kind of cop though and this is a good example of how they can drag it out with BS.



    This is better Skid

    Last edited by peter nap; 03-16-2011 at 11:02 AM.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    This was a particularly stupid cop and the kid really yanked his chain too long (although it is fun) . Virginia does have a bumper crop of this kind of cop though and this is a good example of how they can drag it out with BS.
    ...
    This is better Skid

    ...
    Couldn't even watch past about 1 minute in to the first one.

    As for the second, it's pretty clear that when the word cooperation is used, what's really meant is submission.
    Last edited by t33j; 03-16-2011 at 11:18 AM.
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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Angry Agreed, t33j

    Both of those videos were excruciatingly uncomfortable to watch.

    The fat sheriff in the first one should be run out on a rail for his fascist tendencies - see something, say something... ARREST SOMEONE!

    The second guy lends an eerie statement when he says that we are "kinda free" and that we have lost some freedom because of terrorists.

    Wrong, assgoblin. We have lost freedoms because of munchers like you and your handlers who keep passing spurious legislation providing disgruntled junior varsity enforcers the authority to intercept lawful citizens and interdict lawful acts.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Wish I could tell you how angry those videos make me, but words fail me.

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    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    The second guy lends an eerie statement when he says that we are "kinda free" and that we have lost some freedom because of terrorists.

    Wrong, assgoblin. We have lost freedoms because of munchers like you and your handlers who keep passing spurious legislation providing disgruntled junior varsity enforcers the authority to intercept lawful citizens and interdict lawful acts.
    I had to think about replying for a while Wilde....It's close to being out of the boards topic area.

    While there are many that do not have some freedom now, it's because they gave it away, not because someone took it.
    Granted, there is a serious attempt to take freedom, but for some of us...it ain't gonna happen.

    Cops can ask or demand whatever they want. In some respects they always have. How we handle it determines if we still have our freedom or have given it up. Freedom is in the mind not in the neighborhood.

    Videographer number two handled it pretty well.

    I'll repeat a line some board members are familier with:

    "I don't give a sh*t what the Captain wants!"
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-17-2011 at 10:36 AM.

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    Video #2 - what a nimrod (rent-a-cop). I'm willing to bet since it's a night shift he's tanked up on coffee. I have a strong bladder - let's see who wins. I like that once the guy goes back to shooting more photos, suddenly the cat's got the security guy's tongue.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    video two was indeed creepy... the cop didn't seem to be a jerk though, much like the first video

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    The best line of video#2: "Great, well let me get your picture then....."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot2A View Post
    ask if I am being detained
    No, ask WHY you are being detained. If you've been stopped; you're being detained! If you ask, you'll never get a straight answer and you'll just stand there, being detained, asking if you're being detained...

    If you ask Why am I being detained, the concept of detainment is not in question. Which is also the reality of your situation.

    The Officer either has a good reason for detaining you, or he doesn't. Don't let him dodge the issue by asking the wrong question.

    Does a rape victim ask the rapist "are you raping me?" Would you get a sensible answer? Don't you already know?

    If you feel you are not free to go, then you're being detained. It is not up to the Officer to define this for you. Don't give them any more power than they are already abusing.

    By asking the right question, you establish for your voice recorder that you know you're being detained, and that he either has a good reason for, which he states, or he doesn't, which he either states or refuses to respond at all. Asking the right question puts the 'being civil' ball in his court, also. He can be an ass, or he can be a respectable human being. Instead of you being the one named as bad for refusing to talk, he is the one doing it.

    Don't sell yourself out.
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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    The rent-a-cop in the second video seems to be a few sandwiches short of a picnic. If you watch the video a couple times, it is painfully obvious he resides in the shallow end of the gene pool. I certainly hope he is being closely supervised by someone in charge of "his" video system with an above-room-temperature IQ. He was definitely rejected for employment as a 'real' LEO.
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