Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 118

Thread: SB129 - Unlicensed open carry bill passes Oklahoma Senate, moves to House

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710

    Thumbs up SB129 - Unlicensed open carry bill passes Oklahoma Senate, moves to House

    Link to Text

    Well, while was paying attention to what was going on in the House, this Senate Bill slipped by me. It passed today 36 to 8. Now it moves on to the House. Hopefully the House won't kill the Senate bill like they are doing to their own measures.

    Half way there.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Edmond, OK
    Posts
    20

    So what are the next steps for this?

    I'm not too savvy on how the process of this stuff works. would someone please explain what the next steps that will need to take place before I can enjoy an open carry trip to the store?

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710

    What's next

    The bill will go to the House and be assigned to committee. (probably Public Safety).

    Next, hopefully the committee chair (Rep Sue Tibbs for Public Safety) will not kill it and actually have a hearing on it. After the committee passes it (hopefully), it will get placed on the house calendar. Next the Floor Leader will place it on the Floor Calendar (hopefully). Finally the House will vote on it.

    If Amendments are filed it will go back to the Senate for them to OK the amendments. Once both houses agree on the same language it will go to the Gov (who has promised to sign it) for signing. After signing, the law would go into affect Nov. 1, 2011.

    I am going to try and get in touch with my rep tomorrow and see if there is anything we can do to prevent the House from screwing up the senate bill as they are doing with their own bills.
    Last edited by hrdware; 03-15-2011 at 10:48 PM. Reason: added a sentence

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Edmond, OK
    Posts
    20

    Thanks for explaining.

    Am I right that the other two bills started in the house and are now in senate? Or have already passed senate and are already waiting final vote in house?

    I'm sure one will pass with some sort of amendments requiring some sort of training course or something. As long as it doesn't go to general ballot in 2012. That's too long for antis to spill false claims about it and too many people uninformed on the subject voting. Even a special vote would not be too bad. Just not the general.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by jcizzle View Post
    Am I right that the other two bills started in the house and are now in senate? Or have already passed senate and are already waiting final vote in house?

    I'm sure one will pass with some sort of amendments requiring some sort of training course or something. As long as it doesn't go to general ballot in 2012. That's too long for antis to spill false claims about it and too many people uninformed on the subject voting. Even a special vote would not be too bad. Just not the general.
    I believe you are referring to HB1647 and HB1796. Both of these bills are still in the house.

    HB1647 mainly deals with a lifetime permit for active duty military and veterans. There is a single line in there that would allow open carry if a person had "reasonable fear of bodily harm". I am against this wording because it doesn't define "reasonable fear" and it doesn't say who gets to determine what "reasonable fear" is. This bill can be voted on after brought up after 3:25 today as long as no amendments are filed. If amendments are filed it has to wait another 24 hours, so 3:25 on Thursday.

    HB1796 is on the General Order and it is up to the Floor Leader to determine when (and if) the bill is heard by the House. This bill is the concealed with open option that would go to a vote of the people. There are amendments filed that would remove the vote of the people language and make it a vote of the legislature. There are also amendments to insert a "reasonable fear" clause for anyone to open carry. Again, I do not support the "reasonable fear" clauses.

    Both of these bills are still in the House and will have to be voted on by the House before end of session Thursday. If they get and pass a house vote, they will then go to the Senate for Senate consideration. If they are not voted on by end of business Thursday, they are dead for the session. It really pisses me off to find that bills can die because either the committee chair, the floor leader, or the Speaker of the House is does not think it is a good bill.

  6. #6
    Regular Member russcook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    It really pisses me off to find that bills can die because either the committee chair, the floor leader, or the Speaker of the House is does not think it is a good bill.
    See my thread above titled "House antics over Open Carry".
    I included a link to the recorded video of yesterday's session,
    with time-stamps of sections pertaining to Open Carry and
    the way the House Leadership addresses the topic ...
    Last edited by russcook; 03-25-2011 at 11:02 AM. Reason: typo :(

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Duncan, Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    67
    I have a question about SB129. I looked it over and saw it just amended Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1289.6 but didn't amend Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1272.1 to allow open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Also it didn't amend Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1289.13 to allow for carrying a loaded gun in a vehicle without a ccw. So under that bill would it be illegal to open carry in a restaurant that served alcohol and to carry a loaded gun in a vehicle without a ccw?

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by MM_45 View Post
    I have a question about SB129. I looked it over and saw it just amended Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1289.6 but didn't amend Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1272.1 to allow open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Also it didn't amend Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1289.13 to allow for carrying a loaded gun in a vehicle without a ccw. So under that bill would it be illegal to open carry in a restaurant that served alcohol and to carry a loaded gun in a vehicle without a ccw?
    You are correct. It would not allow OC in restaurant's that serve alcohol and you could not OC in your car. The restaurant law is like NM, and the OC in a car is like WA. Other states may have similar laws, but those are the 2 I know off the top of my head.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,708
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    You are correct. It would not allow OC in restaurant's that serve alcohol and you could not OC in your car. The restaurant law is like NM, and the OC in a car is like WA. Other states may have similar laws, but those are the 2 I know off the top of my head.
    Quick question. If you had your weapon on your left hip so that the door concealed the weapon from anyone looking in could that be viewed as CC, and then legal so long as you have a license?

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Quick question. If you had your weapon on your left hip so that the door concealed the weapon from anyone looking in could that be viewed as CC, and then legal so long as you have a license?
    Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1290.2
    "Concealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded pistol carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in which the person is riding as a passenger;
    IANAL, You be the judge.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Duncan, Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Quick question. If you had your weapon on your left hip so that the door concealed the weapon from anyone looking in could that be viewed as CC, and then legal so long as you have a license?

    If you had it on your left hip so that the door concealed your gun from anyone looking in it might be viewed as CC but not entirely sure since the gun isn't under clothing, under the seat, in the glovebox or console of the vehicle. If you have a license you may carry CC or OC while in a vehicle.

    Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1289.13A


    A. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1272 or 1289.13 of this title, any person stopped pursuant to a moving traffic violation who is transporting a loaded pistol in the motor vehicle without a valid concealed handgun permit authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or valid license from another state, whether the loaded firearm is concealed or open in the vehicle, shall be issued a traffic citation in the amount of Seventy Dollars ($70.00), plus court costs for transporting a firearm improperly. In addition to the traffic citation provided in this section, the person may also be arrested for any other violation of law.

    B. When the arresting officer determines that a valid handgun license exists, pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or any provision of law from another state, for any person in the stopped vehicle, any firearms permitted to be carried pursuant to that license shall not be confiscated, unless:

    1. The person is arrested for violating another provision of law other than a violation of subsection A of this section; provided, however, if the person is never charged with an offense pursuant to this paragraph or if the charges are dismissed or the person is acquitted, the weapon shall be returned to the person; or

    2. The officer has probable cause to believe the weapon is:

    a. contraband, or

    b. a firearm used in the commission of a crime other than a violation of subsection A of this section.

    C. Nothing in this section shall be construed to require confiscation of any firearm

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by MM_45 View Post
    If you had it on your left hip so that the door concealed your gun from anyone looking in it might be viewed as CC but not entirely sure since the gun isn't under clothing, under the seat, in the glovebox or console of the vehicle. If you have a license you may carry CC or OC while in a vehicle.

    Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1289.13A


    A. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1272 or 1289.13 of this title, any person stopped pursuant to a moving traffic violation who is transporting a loaded pistol in the motor vehicle without a valid concealed handgun permit authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or valid license from another state, whether the loaded firearm is concealed or open in the vehicle, shall be issued a traffic citation in the amount of Seventy Dollars ($70.00), plus court costs for transporting a firearm improperly. In addition to the traffic citation provided in this section, the person may also be arrested for any other violation of law.

    B. When the arresting officer determines that a valid handgun license exists, pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or any provision of law from another state, for any person in the stopped vehicle, any firearms permitted to be carried pursuant to that license shall not be confiscated, unless:

    1. The person is arrested for violating another provision of law other than a violation of subsection A of this section; provided, however, if the person is never charged with an offense pursuant to this paragraph or if the charges are dismissed or the person is acquitted, the weapon shall be returned to the person; or

    2. The officer has probable cause to believe the weapon is:

    a. contraband, or

    b. a firearm used in the commission of a crime other than a violation of subsection A of this section.

    C. Nothing in this section shall be construed to require confiscation of any firearm
    I'm sorry, but can you show me where it says OC is legal in a car if you have a CWL? I'm just not seeing that with what you posted.

    21-1289.7. Firearms in vehicles.

    Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle, shotgun or pistol, open and unloaded, at any time. For purposes of this section "open" means the firearm is transported in plain view, in a case designed for carrying firearms, which case is wholly or partially visible, in a gun rack mounted in the vehicle, in an exterior locked compartment or a trunk of a vehicle.
    Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle or shotgun concealed behind a seat of the vehicle or within the interior of the vehicle provided the rifle or shotgun is not clip, magazine or chamber loaded. The authority to transport a clip or magazine loaded rifle or shotgun shall be pursuant to Section 1289.13 of this title.
    Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1290.1 through 1290.25 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun or has concealed the handgun in such vehicle, shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.

    21-1289.13. Transporting a loaded firearm.

    Except as otherwise provided by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or another provision of law, it shall be unlawful to transport a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a landborne motor vehicle over a public highway or roadway.

    1289.13A states it is a violation to transport a loaded firearm firearm in your car without a permit. 1289.13 states it is unlawful to transport a loaded pistol except as provided by the SDA. 1289.7 also states you can carry open and unloaded in your car, but if you are carrying a loaded concealed handgun, you are not in violation.

    I still don't see anything about legal OC of a loaded pistol in your vehicle.
    Last edited by hrdware; 03-17-2011 at 12:54 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,708
    The very end of 1289 says:

    Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun or has concealed a handgun or rifle or shotgun in such vehicle shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.

    and per 1290.2:

    1. "Concealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded pistol carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in which the person is riding as a passenger;


    So I guess I should have just reread the laws. It looks like simply having the weapon loaded in your car and out of direct view (it's between you and the door and thus hidden from detection/view) makes it "concealed" and per the 1289 part having your CFL makes you exempt.

    The next part would be to just get an amendment or clarification in order to protect people who want to OC but don't have a CFL. Would really suck for one of them to get pulled over and then arrested under CCW charges simply because having the gun holstered in the car conceals it.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710
    Where are you getting that OC in a car is legal. It is not. Unloaded OC is legal in a car. Loaded concealed is legal in a car. The laws I cited above specifically state that loaded OC in a car is unlawful.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,708
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Where are you getting that OC in a car is legal. It is not. Unloaded OC is legal in a car. Loaded concealed is legal in a car. The laws I cited above specifically state that loaded OC in a car is unlawful.
    I guess I didn't make myself clear enough in my original post. My original fear was that while OCing I get into my car and drive with my gun still on my left hip (I'm a lefty) and get pulled over. Now I have a CFL so I don't have to worry about CCing, but the next question would become what exactly that would constitute in the car (ie does having it between me and the door make it CC while in the car since the cop can't see it from the driver's side window, or since an article of clothing isn't covering it could a cop try to say I was OCing in the car; and then there's the issue of if they approach from the passenger's side and see even a bit of it sticking out).

    This is obviously a catch-22. With how the law is currently written should you be able to OC you could still be charged with either illegal OCing or illegal CC while driving (unless you have a CFL license). If you have a CFL and are choosing to OC then the question becomes does the weapon have to be specially positioned so that a cop can't see the weapon once he approaches your window.

    As for 1289.13A I'm not quite sure how to take it. To me it looks like not only could they cite you with illegal carry, but they can also give you an additional traffic citation, confiscate the gun, and make you pay additional fees; but thanks to 1289.13A you're exempt from the additional traffic citation, confiscation, etc if you have a CFL. It doesn't look like it makes you exempt from the illegal transportation charge though. But INAL so I could be reading it completely wrong (hence asking these types of questions).


    Regardless of if the laws currently suggested get signed or not this is something that will need to be addressed when OC becomes legal or else we could have people getting in trouble while driving their vehicles and attempting to OC.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 03-17-2011 at 04:42 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710

    Onne cat at a time

    Yes, firstwe have to skin the OC cat before worrying about the others.

    IMO, OC of a loaded gun in a car would be illegal without a CWL. But you bbring uup a good point about it being concealed between you and the door.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Duncan, Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    67
    The reason i said OC in a vehice is legal with a ccw is beacuse Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1289.13A says that anyone who carrys a loaded gun in a vehicle is improper transportation of a firearm whether concealed or unconcealed if they do not have a ccw. So if you have a ccw you arent in violation of that. Title 21 Ch.53 1289.7 is saying that you have to transport a gun open and unloaded but if you have a ccw and are carrying a concealed handgun or have concealed a handgun you are not in violation.
    Last edited by MM_45; 03-19-2011 at 01:12 AM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    2,304
    36-8?

    How could the House gut this or kill it. Usually senates are more anti-gun than Houses.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by MM_45 View Post
    The reason i said OC in a vehice is legal with a ccw is beacuse Title 21 Ch.53 Section 1289.13A says that anyone who carrys a loaded gun in a vehicle is improper transportation of a firearm whether concealed or unconcealed if they do not have a ccw. So if you have a ccw you arent in violation of that. Title 21 Ch.53 1289.7 is saying that you have to transport a gun open and unloaded but if you have a ccw and are carrying a concealed handgun or have concealed a handgun you are not in violation.
    With a permit, 1289.13A allows you to carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle.
    With a permit, 1289.7 allows you to carry a concealed handgun in your vehicle.

    IMO, open carry of a loaded handgun is a violation of 1289.7, even though it is not mentioned in 1289.13A.

    IANAL so we will probably agree to disagree on this.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    36-8?

    How could the House gut this or kill it. Usually senates are more anti-gun than Houses.
    Easy, the House Public Safety Committee Chair simply refuses to have a hearing on it.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Easy, the House Public Safety Committee Chair simply refuses to have a hearing on it.
    and it's extremely frustrating that it IS so easy.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710

    Not going to happen this week

    The public Safety Committee will not be hearing this bill this week. They still have 2 more weeks in which to hear it. I called Rep Tibbs office and asked her assistant if she will be having a hearing on it or not but she did not know. So I then requested to leave a message that she give it a hearing.

    Rep Tibbs phone number is (405) 557-7379. Her email address is suetibbs@okhouse.gov Feel free to call or email and nicely request that she give this bill a hearing.
    Last edited by hrdware; 03-21-2011 at 11:48 AM. Reason: added email

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    A, A
    Posts
    612
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    The public Safety Committee will not be hearing this bill this week. They still have 2 more weeks in which to hear it. I called Rep Tibbs office and asked her assistant if she will be having a hearing on it or not but she did not know. So I then requested to leave a message that she give it a hearing.

    Rep Tibbs phone number is (405) 557-7379. Her email address is suetibbs@okhouse.gov Feel free to call or email and nicely request that she give this bill a hearing.
    I was burning up the phone lines last week, this week we are e-mailing....

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Moore, OK
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by JBURGII View Post
    I was burning up the phone lines last week, this week we are e-mailing....
    Since you are e-mailing, I'll help you out a bit. Here is a list of e-mail addresses for every member of the Public Safety Committee in the House. I don't know if individual members can sway the chair to have a hearing, but it couldn't hurt to drop them each a quick note.

    suetibbs@okhouse.gov;
    stevemartin@okhouse.gov;
    john.bennett@okhouse.gov;
    josh.cockroft@okhouse.gov;
    tommy.hardin@okhouse.gov;
    fred.jordan@okhouse.gov;
    al.mcaffrey@okhouse.gov;
    pampeterson@okhouse.gov;
    paulroan@okhouse.gov;
    steve.vaughan@okhouse.gov;
    ed.cannaday@okhouse.gov;
    dougcox@okhouse.gov;
    chuck.hoskin@okhouse.gov;
    charlie.joyner@okhouse.gov;
    pat.ownbey@okhouse.gov;
    brian.renegar@okhouse.gov;
    todd.thomsen@okhouse.gov

    Happy e-mailing.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    A, A
    Posts
    612
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Since you are e-mailing, I'll help you out a bit. Here is a list of e-mail addresses for every member of the Public Safety Committee in the House. I don't know if individual members can sway the chair to have a hearing, but it couldn't hurt to drop them each a quick note.

    suetibbs@okhouse.gov;
    stevemartin@okhouse.gov;
    john.bennett@okhouse.gov;
    josh.cockroft@okhouse.gov;
    tommy.hardin@okhouse.gov;
    fred.jordan@okhouse.gov;
    al.mcaffrey@okhouse.gov;
    pampeterson@okhouse.gov;
    paulroan@okhouse.gov;
    steve.vaughan@okhouse.gov;
    ed.cannaday@okhouse.gov;
    dougcox@okhouse.gov;
    chuck.hoskin@okhouse.gov;
    charlie.joyner@okhouse.gov;
    pat.ownbey@okhouse.gov;
    brian.renegar@okhouse.gov;
    todd.thomsen@okhouse.gov

    Happy e-mailing.
    Excellent! I will get to work on those immediately. I have been on a word of mouth campaign down here in Grady County since I got here, trying to raise awareness of the issue and get people involved. I have had limited success so far but its better than nothing.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •