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Thread: New Pistol, Want to OC

  1. #1
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    New Pistol, Want to OC

    Introduction

    Hello, I've read through the last 10 pages of threads in this sub-forum the last couple of weeks and learned a lot.

    I'm 30 years of age, I bought a 10-22 when I turned 18 and shot it only a handful of times before putting it up for 10 years. Now that my parents have a few acres by Truman Lake, I've put 10k rounds through it in the last couple years.

    I like benchrest and target shooting in general. Last spring I bought a Buck Mark .22 pistol and have practiced marksmanship and safe handling with it. I like target shooting with it too and of course plinking.

    Instead of putting a target barrel on the Ruger and reducing its ability to digest cheap ammo, I decided to get a bolt-action rimfire. After much research I purchased a CZ 452 American last fall.

    -----------

    That story of my life leads up to my decision to buy a CZ 85 Combat (9 mm). I was impressed with the quality and namely accuracy of the CZ for the money.

    I had always wanted a full-size service pistol when I came around to buying one. I'm not sure why it is designated "Combat", as it is setup more for target shooting and the pistol competitions. I'm also left-handed and liked the ambidextrous controls. It felt the most natural in my hand.

    I'm small-framed and with a full-size pistol OC makes sense. I'm also interested in asserting my rights. I had jury duty a couple weeks ago and I believe it was while I was researching it that I clicked a link to this site. Regardless, jury duty and this site has perked my interest in constitutional and case law.

    Questions

    Now the problem, I reside in Belton mostly! Looking up the ordinances I see OC is prohibited.

    I also looked up Cass county and could not find where it is prohibited. I read here that Raymore was going to repeal their prohibition. If anyone here has already researched and can tell me if it is now legal in Cass county and Raymore, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I can look at it again.

    My second problem, with gas going high again and summer coming, I will be riding my motorcycle as much as possible. It's a dual-sport bike and I only have a tail-bag on it. To leave the house with my pistol, I'd have to have it unloaded and ammunition separate, and I believe one or the other in a locked compartment. My tail bag is simply a military-style butt pack lashed on and has two quick-release buckles to secure the flap along with a drawstring closure on the inside. I certainly wouldn't ever leave it with the bike unattended.

    On that note, my pickup truck does not have a lockable glove box or center console.

    Can anyone elaborate on lawful transport in my situation, please?

    Now with the moto, I'm a firm believer in All The Gear All The Time (ATGATT), so I'm always bundled up. And from what I read here even a winter coat poses a problem. I suppose I could wear my surplus pistol belt and harness. It's pure function but is it over the top?

    Also, I was wondering, in inclement weather, is a holster worn on the outside but with a flap covering the butt considered concealed? I imagine it is, unfortunately.

    Living in Belton poses the biggest impediment to my OC'ing, if this new bill passes maybe I will break down and pay for a CCW permit just so OC is not so troublesome while still in town (I'm just within city limits).

    Thanks

    Thanks to everyone for reading my first post and for all your contributions to this site. Just reading your posts here has introduced to me what to expect from OC and how to handle myself.

    I will strive to be a good advocate for OC. I've already been going on and on about it with family and friends.

    Maybe I will have the good fortune to meet some of you in person and even share range time together.

  2. #2
    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Welcome to the community!

    As for your transport questions I'll leave that to someone else who can answer them more thoroughly.

    Anyway, since you're close to the KC area you should come out to one of our monthly meets, we just had the March meet but there will be one coming up on April 9th at 4:00PM. The location is to be determined but you can check back under "Meetings" on MissouriOpenCarry.org or keep an eye out on here for the location.
    Tiocfaidh Ar La

  3. #3
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    i may be wrong but...
    your vehicle is your personal property. it is the same as being in your house.
    you can carry open or concealed on your property with or without ammo.

    maybe doc can help answer more questions

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CsHoSi View Post
    Introduction

    My second problem, with gas going high again and summer coming, I will be riding my motorcycle as much as possible. It's a dual-sport bike and I only have a tail-bag on it. To leave the house with my pistol, I'd have to have it unloaded and ammunition separate, and I believe one or the other in a locked compartment. My tail bag is simply a military-style butt pack lashed on and has two quick-release buckles to secure the flap along with a drawstring closure on the inside. I certainly wouldn't ever leave it with the bike unattended..
    that is outdated, you now can keep a fully locked and loaded gun in your vechicle without a conceal carry permit, so you could keep the gun locked/loaded in that tail bag. you could even have it concealed on you in your vechile, but as soon as you leave the vechile, you cant have it on you concealed without the CCW permit. I wonder though, that might be hard on a bike to keep it on you concealed. b/c you would have to take it off you before you get off the bike, since without a permit you can only keep it on you while in the vechile. so how would you move the gun from being concealed to either storing it in the tail bag, or i guess you could move it to a OC holster if you are in a OC allowed city. and would that be considered brandishing since on a bike your in plane view moving your gun from concealment to either OC or a vechile container..[/QUOTE]


    Quote Originally Posted by CsHoSi View Post
    On that note, my pickup truck does not have a lockable glove box or center console. .
    same as your motorcycle, you can keep it locked and loaded concealed in your vechicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by CsHoSi View Post
    Can anyone elaborate on lawful transport in my situation, please?.
    Pickup: you can keep it on you concealed while your in the vechile( make sure you dont have it concealed after you leave the vechile), or you can put it in your glove box. dosent have to be unloaded. if your in a OC freindly town, you can open carry it in your vechile or on you. i prob wouldnt recomend the option above on concealing it on you while in a vechile, b/c with my luck i forget to take it off before i left. but i listed that so you know you had the option.

    Bike: i think your only real option is to Conceal it in your tail bag if your not in an OC freindly town.


    Quote Originally Posted by CsHoSi View Post
    Also, I was wondering, in inclement weather, is a holster worn on the outside but with a flap covering the butt considered concealed? I imagine it is, unfortunately.
    it be considered concealed if the gun isnt visible from 2 points of view. If i reading this right, your saying saying the holster would be on the outside, but the gun is totaly out of view due to the flap is covering it? if so, then yes that would be concealed carry.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for all the replies.

    I had a family emergency and hadn't found the time to reply until now.

    Yes, I was misinformed! Recently I had saw in the Warrensburg OC thread a link to RSMO 571.030, which subsection 3 states what you said, as long as you're 21 or older. I assume the "passenger compartment" on a motorcycle encompasses the seat as well as any baggage attached. Also, reading the language, I don't interpret that it necessarily has to be concealed.

    I had looked up peaceable journey and came up with USC Section 926a on Interstate Transportation of Firearms. I found this part interesting, "...Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

    Staying within MO should allow me to carry a concealable firearm within my "passenger compartment" according to RSMO 571.030.3, and the city of Belton cannot preempt that. Only because of RSMO 21.750.3 are they able to prohibit open carry.

    That is my interpretation of the laws, if anyone disagrees, please bring it to my attention.

    Thanks for responding about a holster concealing the firearm. I had looked in the definitions for chapter 571 and didn't see one for concealed, only a concealable firearm. If someone knows off-hand the number that discusses what is considered concealed I'd like to study it. I haven't come across it yet.

    I read Raymore's 210.330 and Cass County's 205.250 again and only see restrictions on concealed carry, nothing prohibiting open carry.

    I'm not quite sure what I am going to do on the motorcycle yet. But I don't think I will carry it at all if I'm going to be stopping somewhere in Belton. I am not going to leave it with the bike. I may just fork out and get a CCW permit if I continue to reside in Belton.

    Now, if I'm going to stop in Raymore, from my understanding of the MO statutes above, I could either test the limits of RSMO 571.030.3 and open carry on my motorcycle from leaving my house while in Belton, and upon stopping in Raymore it would be legal there because there is no local ordinance against it.

    Or, if I wanted to play it safer, I could have the pistol already in an OC holster stored in the tail bag, and upon reaching my destination in Raymore I could reach back and take it out of the bag, then thread it onto my belt, all while the pistol remains in its holster.

    I think my confusion has mostly been cleared up!

    I would still like to hear from you all if you think it is a bad idea or definitely illegal to OC while on my motorcycle, but not stopping anywhere while in the city of Belton, which prohibits OC.

    Or do you think concealing it in my tail bag and taking out the holstered pistol and putting it on my belt when I stop outside the city limits would leave me more or less likely to have to defend my freedom?

    I would rather OC, less hassle taking on and off. Although, if I went down it would suffer some serious road rash!

  6. #6
    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    My input.

    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    i may be wrong but...
    your vehicle is your personal property. it is the same as being in your house.
    you can carry open or concealed on your property with or without ammo.

    maybe doc can help answer more questions
    OC in a vehicle is more complicated than you may think. In some of the jurisdictions that do not allow OC. Do make exceptions for vehicles and some even make partial exceptions where they will allow OC unloaded with ammo not readily accessibly, and others make no exceptions. The State has updated the standards but because there is a statue that allows municipalities to make their own OC laws. These old outdated state standards that were written into local laws can still be used against you. My advise. Avoid any OC outlawed jurisdictions.

    On a side note. I believe Goalseter88 may be confused on Missouri's exhibiting of a firearm law(he calls brandishing). As long as OC is legal in that jurisdiction. If the firearm is not exhibited with threatening or malice behavior, no law has been broke.

    Doc

  7. #7
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    well i hope that new bill goes through...not being able to opencarry my firearm in my own personal property. sheesh.

    ill just pull my coat over it.

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