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Thread: The "CAUSE ALARM" trap! Are U going to fall for it!

  1. #1
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    The "CAUSE ALARM" trap! Are U going to fall for it!

    2 Question’s:
    1. Is it possible when you hand out flyers when you open carry, you are in fact officially recognizing that you are doing something that could cause “alarm” and giving a possible technical validation to a breech of peace arrest & or threatening, through your action’s. (CCDL Flyers for example)
    2. How would you answer if the Police said real friendly like, during a unlawful Terry stop, from a call in, “well you know OC’in could cause alarm right?” Would you fall for that trap?

    I had a friendly conversation with a Cromwell PD officer at Wal-Mart, (Who pulled me out of the Gym on a prior occasion for a call that I ran into the New England athletic club with a bight blue Gun, (m4 commando w/grenade launcher, my 20 pd rubber training rifle I sometimes run with.)

    I approached, the officer for an open carry conversation, during the conversation he asked me, “well open carrying could cause alarm, you do know that”, I said “I never really thought about it & that I have a permit to carry and that’s it.” I’m not fallin’ for that one, even in friendly conversation!

    He recognized OC’s Legality, & I asked him how he would respond if someone just called on me, for shopping with my FN .45 Tac. w/ reflex sight, he coped out and said that I seem, “very prudent” but he’s required to interview the caller(s), & make a determination from there as to what occurred. (Me shoppin’ with my gun, holstered, responsibly, WTF)

    I subsequently informed him that I usually remain totally silent when stopped by an officer, & don’t speak at all, & the only people I would explain my self to work at the court house! The officer seemed puzzled by that, I gathered that he felt I would nullify pretty much anything he tried to hit me with, because he would have none of my own statements to use against me. I told him my normal script is stating “Thank you for your svc, but I respectfully invoke my right to remain silent!

    I was totally surprised by his reaction, to hypothetically invoking silence, like he never has anyone who invokes on him, he wasn’t sure how to take that!

    The officer seemed cool, was against the Mag. Ban & to my surprise supportive of the Decimalization of Marijuana, & any unnecessary interference on privet citizens, to use his lingo he was a prudent individual!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Someone feeling alarmed by your lawful actions is not a crime, so I don't see this as a major issue.

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    Doesn't DC require intent, I don't think it is a reckless standard?
    "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    I would be real careful about carrying a blue trainer.


    Sec. 53-206c. Sale, carrying and brandishing of facsimile firearms prohibited. Class B misdemeanor. (a) For the purposes of this section:

    (1) "Facsimile of a firearm" means (A) any nonfunctional imitation of an original firearm which was manufactured, designed and produced since 1898, or (B) any nonfunctional representation of a firearm other than an imitation of an original firearm, provided such representation could reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm. Such term does not include any look-a-like, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional BB. or pellet-firing air gun that expels a metallic or paint-contained projectile through the force of air pressure.

    (2) "Firearm" means firearm as defined in section 53a-3.

    (b) No person shall give, offer for sale or sell any facsimile of a firearm. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to any facsimile of a firearm, which, because of its distinct color, exaggerated size or other design feature, cannot reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm.

    (c) Except in self defense, no person shall carry, draw, exhibit or brandish a facsimile of a firearm or simulate a firearm in a threatening manner, with intent to frighten, vex or harass another person.

    (d) No person shall draw, exhibit or brandish a facsimile of a firearm or simulate a firearm in the presence of a peace officer, firefighter, emergency medical technician or paramedic engaged in the performance of his duties knowing or having reason to know that such peace officer, firefighter, emergency medical technician or paramedic is engaged in the performance of his duties, with intent to impede such person in the performance of such duties.

    (e) Any person who violates any provision of this section shall be guilty of a class B misdemeanor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I would be real careful about carrying a blue trainer.
    I hear you Rich I think im good but, you never know when Some LEO wants to get upity. I think the Color provision in Sec b makes it ok, I origionally orderd it in black and Had to call and change it, dident want to get shot in the back with the MP3 Player on) Cromwell PD cleared me hot to run with a 20 lb peice of blue plastic, (oh thank you grandmasters, of the Universe!)

    (B) any nonfunctional representation of a firearm other than an imitation of an original firearm, provided such representation could reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm......I could have Taken it to Liberty Firearms Coating and be running with a BLUE CERAKOTED M4, (Thats probally what they would argue in Court) LOL

    (b) No person shall give, offer for sale or sell any facsimile of a firearm. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to any facsimile of a firearm, which, because of its distinct color, exaggerated size or other design feature, cannot reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Citizen View Post
    I think the Color provision in Sec b makes it ok
    I am not sure how. Subsection 'b' only discusses the selling of the facsimiles. I don't really see anything that clears you to carry it just because it is blue.

    (B) any nonfunctional representation of a firearm other than an imitation of an original firearm, provided such representation could reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm.
    .....I could have Taken it to Liberty Firearms Coating and be running with a BLUE CERAKOTED M4, (Thats probally what they would argue in Court) LOL

    That wouldn't be a nonfunctional representation of a firearm.

    (b) No person shall give, offer for sale or sell any facsimile of a firearm. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to any facsimile of a firearm, which, because of its distinct color, exaggerated size or other design feature, cannot reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm.
    You emphasized the wrong part of the exception. I corrected the emphasis.
    I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure this statute makes the carry of a blue trainer illegal.
    Last edited by Rich B; 03-16-2011 at 01:50 PM.

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    I understand the concept of "causing an alarm", but as I had mentioned in a previous post once before I had a problem at my college as I told a classmate that I was going to go to the shooting range on one of my days off. Another person overheard this and reported me to the police. So I mean is "causing an alarm" make me guilty here. I mean the person filed a completely false police report as he said things that I never said, but it did cause an alarm.

    I like your method of invoking your rights, but do not know if I would do the same.

  8. #8
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    When I was stopped in the Newington Stop & Shop last year by the po-lice while open-carrying, the youngest of the three cops said that '....this could be a borderline breach-of-the-peace...'. I looked him in the eye and said '...since I have a valid permit, and open-carry is not prohibited by state law, how can my lawful conduct be a breach-of-the-peace...'.

    He didn't say another word after that.

    Anyway, if someone is 'alarmed' by my lawful and peaceable conduct, that's their problem.


    mg

    Quote Originally Posted by Good Citizen View Post
    2 Question’s:
    1. Is it possible when you hand out flyers when you open carry, you are in fact officially recognizing that you are doing something that could cause “alarm” and giving a possible technical validation to a breech of peace arrest & or threatening, through your action’s. (CCDL Flyers for example)
    2. How would you answer if the Police said real friendly like, during a unlawful Terry stop, from a call in, “well you know OC’in could cause alarm right?” Would you fall for that trap?

    I had a friendly conversation with a Cromwell PD officer at Wal-Mart, (Who pulled me out of the Gym on a prior occasion for a call that I ran into the New England athletic club with a bight blue Gun, (m4 commando w/grenade launcher, my 20 pd rubber training rifle I sometimes run with.)

    I approached, the officer for an open carry conversation, during the conversation he asked me, “well open carrying could cause alarm, you do know that”, I said “I never really thought about it & that I have a permit to carry and that’s it.” I’m not fallin’ for that one, even in friendly conversation!

    He recognized OC’s Legality, & I asked him how he would respond if someone just called on me, for shopping with my FN .45 Tac. w/ reflex sight, he coped out and said that I seem, “very prudent” but he’s required to interview the caller(s), & make a determination from there as to what occurred. (Me shoppin’ with my gun, holstered, responsibly, WTF)

    I subsequently informed him that I usually remain totally silent when stopped by an officer, & don’t speak at all, & the only people I would explain my self to work at the court house! The officer seemed puzzled by that, I gathered that he felt I would nullify pretty much anything he tried to hit me with, because he would have none of my own statements to use against me. I told him my normal script is stating “Thank you for your svc, but I respectfully invoke my right to remain silent!

    I was totally surprised by his reaction, to hypothetically invoking silence, like he never has anyone who invokes on him, he wasn’t sure how to take that!

    The officer seemed cool, was against the Mag. Ban & to my surprise supportive of the Decimalization of Marijuana, & any unnecessary interference on privet citizens, to use his lingo he was a prudent individual!

  9. #9
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    BOP 1st Degree pertains to explosive or incendiary devices; the standard is recklessness.
    BOP 2nd Degree (53a-181) pertains to threatening behavior in public and the standard is intentional conduct.
    Creating a Public Disturbance (53a-181a) involves the same behavior as 53a-181(a) but introduces a recklessness standard for threatening behavior.
    Disorderly Conduct (53a-182) reintroduces the recklessness standard.

    So, either of the last two can be prosecuted without proving intentional actions.
    "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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