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Thread: Here We Go.....

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Here We Go.....

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...1-HIB-4439.htm

    HOUSE BILL No. 4439


    March 15, 2011, Introduced by Reps. Bauer and Meadows and referred to the Committee on Judiciary.

    A bill to amend 1931 PA 328, entitled

    "The Michigan penal code,"

    by amending section 234d (MCL 750.234d), as amended by 1994 PA 158.

    THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:

    Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person

    shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the

    following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or

    affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.



    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor

    control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of

    1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws

    code, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303.

    (i) A public library as defined in section 2 of 1977 PA 89,

    MCL 397.552.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an

    entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that

    firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry

    a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an

    entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the

    permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a

    misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or

    a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.



    and then

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...1-HIB-4438.htm

    HOUSE BILL No. 4438


    March 15, 2011, Introduced by Reps. Bauer and Meadows and referred to the Committee on Judiciary.

    A bill to amend 1927 PA 372, entitled

    "An act to regulate and license the selling, purchasing,
    possessing, and carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting
    devices; to prohibit the buying, selling, or carrying of certain
    firearms and gas ejecting devices without a license or other
    authorization; to provide for the forfeiture of firearms under
    certain circumstances; to provide for penalties and remedies; to
    provide immunity from civil liability under certain circumstances;
    to prescribe the powers and duties of certain state and local
    agencies; to prohibit certain conduct against individuals who apply
    for or receive a license to carry a concealed pistol; to make
    appropriations; to prescribe certain conditions for the
    appropriations; and to repeal all acts and parts of acts
    inconsistent with this act,"

    by amending section 5o (MCL 28.425o), as amended by 2008 PA 407.

    THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:

    Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed

    under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from

    licensure under section 12a(1)(f), 12a(1)(h), shall not carry a



    concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal

    guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying

    a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or

    she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the

    child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and

    "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of

    the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center,

    public or private child caring institution, or public or private

    child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control

    code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the

    primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic

    liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision

    does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The

    Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available

    to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of

    1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign

    stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying

    concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment

    licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA

    58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the

    sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by

    an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of

    1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce




    this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of

    information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church,

    synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the

    presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque,

    temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed

    pistol on that property or facility.

    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500

    or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a

    seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign

    above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch

    high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college,

    or university.

    (i) A public library as defined in section 2 of 1977 PA 89,

    MCL 397.552.

    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed

    pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f),

    12a(1)(h), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R

    432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code

    promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996

    IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.

    (3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include

    parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).

    (4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) An individual licensed under this act who is a retired




    police officer or retired law enforcement officer. The concealed

    weapon licensing board may require a letter from the law

    enforcement agency stating that the retired police officer or law

    enforcement officer retired in good standing.

    (b) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is

    employed or contracted by an entity described under subsection (1)

    to provide security services and is required by his or her employer

    or the terms of a contract to carry a concealed firearm on the

    premises of the employing or contracting entity.

    (c) An individual who is licensed as a private investigator or

    private detective under the professional investigator licensure

    act, 1965 PA 285, MCL 338.821 to 338.851.

    (d) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a

    corrections officer of a county sheriff's department.

    (e) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a

    motor carrier officer or capitol security officer of the department

    of state police.

    (f) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a

    member of a sheriff's posse.

    (g) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is an

    auxiliary officer or reserve officer of a police or sheriff's

    department.

    (h) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a

    parole or probation officer of the department of corrections.

    (i) A state court judge or state court retired judge who is

    licensed under this act. The concealed weapon licensing board may

    require a state court retired judge to obtain and carry a letter




    from the judicial tenure commission stating that the state court

    retired judge is in good standing as authorized under section 30 of

    article VI of the state constitution of 1963, and rules promulgated

    under that section, in order to qualify under this subdivision.

    (5) An individual who violates this section is responsible for

    a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:

    (a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the

    individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be

    fined not more than $500.00. The court shall order the individual's

    license to carry a concealed pistol suspended for 6 months.

    (b) For a second violation, the individual is guilty of a

    misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000.00. The

    court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed

    pistol revoked.

    (c) For a third or subsequent violation, the individual is

    guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4

    years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both. The court

    shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol

    revoked.


    Obviously they still don't get the legality of CPL open carrying in these places, so it isn't going to solve their "problem."

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Lightbulb We need to do RECON on this...

    We need to find out how much support this has. Who else is behind this ie. Lansing Mayor Virgil B. & City Council? Then we need to work hard to get those pushing this voted out of office.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Oh crap! This is horrible! (you don't want to sell me death sticks)
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    it is funny that it doesn't apply to CPL holders
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    deleted
    Last edited by Venator; 03-16-2011 at 06:30 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    it is funny that it doesn't apply to CPL holders
    Shhhhhh delete this.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
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    I like 4009, 4010 better

  8. #8
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    All these 2 bills would do is require a CPL holders to open carry in libraries and isn't that what they don't want?
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  9. #9
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    These bills pit CC'er against OC'ers in a typical ... assign blame in order to divide and conquer... way. The CC'ers will look upon the OC'ers as being the cause of yet another gun control law.

    But what most folks won't understand is that these bills are a method of hiding the actual agenda of slowly and incrementally reducing the right to bear arms to the licensed privilege to carry concealed and getting the CC'ers to help get it done. And then, when that is accomplished, the "privilege" will be taken away by ever more restrictive conditions to be met to qualify for the license and POOF! ...... all guns are banned without having to ban all guns.

    Never forget the anti's are tireless, patient, and have an eye on the long term goal of getting rid of guns one small bite out of the 2nd Amendment at a time.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Ding! Ding! WE HAVE A WINNER..Spot on Bikenut could of put it better myself Sir ;)

    OOOPS meant "couldn't have" above ....sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    These bills pit CC'er against OC'ers in a typical ... assign blame in order to divide and conquer... way. The CC'ers will look upon the OC'ers as being the cause of yet another gun control law.

    But what most folks won't understand is that these bills are a method of hiding the actual agenda of slowly and incrementally reducing the right to bear arms to the licensed privilege to carry concealed and getting the CC'ers to help get it done. And then, when that is accomplished, the "privilege" will be taken away by ever more restrictive conditions to be met to qualify for the license and POOF! ...... all guns are banned without having to ban all guns.

    Never forget the anti's are tireless, patient, and have an eye on the long term goal of getting rid of guns one small bite out of the 2nd Amendment at a time.
    Next time we meet all the Mt. Dew you can drink is on me. Thanks for this post, as it makes it crystal clear what we are up against here!
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 03-17-2011 at 12:05 AM. Reason: fat fingered it...dang it!

  11. #11
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    These bills pit CC'er against OC'ers in a typical ... assign blame in order to divide and conquer... way. The CC'ers will look upon the OC'ers as being the cause of yet another gun control law.

    But what most folks won't understand is that these bills are a method of hiding the actual agenda of slowly and incrementally reducing the right to bear arms to the licensed privilege to carry concealed and getting the CC'ers to help get it done. And then, when that is accomplished, the "privilege" will be taken away by ever more restrictive conditions to be met to qualify for the license and POOF! ...... all guns are banned without having to ban all guns.

    Never forget the anti's are tireless, patient, and have an eye on the long term goal of getting rid of guns one small bite out of the 2nd Amendment at a time.
    I agree with everything you said except the numerous statements saying that it is a privilege. It is not a privilege. It is a right bestowed onto us by the Bill Of Right.

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    I agree with everything you said except the numerous statements saying that it is a privilege. It is not a privilege. It is a right bestowed onto us by the Bill Of Right.
    I suggest your reread it. He uses privilege sarcastically and in quotes. He knows it's a right, but others often use privilege, which no true 2A support believes.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    I agree with everything you said except the numerous statements saying that it is a privilege. It is not a privilege. It is a right bestowed onto us by the Bill Of Right.
    Yes, you are correct, bearing arms in any manner... openly or concealed... is our right but... under the current system in order to legally bear pistol concealed we must ask permission to be given a permit. Which means that at this point in time the right to bear arms concealed is illegal unless one has been given the "privilege" of a "permit".

    And one way to ban the carrying of guns is to make open carry illegal and concealed carry legal only with a permit.

    Then it is easy to make it harder and harder to qualify for a permit until no ordinary citizen could possibly qualify.....

    and no one can legally carry a pistol......

    It's a one step at a time approach to banning guns without actually banning guns.

    And once bearing arms is illegal it is easy to round up anyone who dares exercise their right to bear arms and put them in prison.

    Back door gun control.

    heheehe... prison and back door... I made a funny. But the concept contained within that funny is very appropriate.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  14. #14
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    They arent going to move on the antis social issues either. They are likely going to do something though, we have our side introduced, now they have their agenda on the table. The legislature is going to have to make a decision of some sort.

  15. #15
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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  16. #16
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    what did I say?

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