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Illinois is planning to Violate the rights of the Amish

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Illinois is one state I could never live in. Firearm owners are 2nd class citizens.
 

sharkey

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
1,064
Location
Arizona
I wonder if the state would allow them to cover their faces? Like with a burkha.

Bronson

You beat me to it. I was going to say that they actually changed their stance because of the possibility of extremist Muslim terrorist women refusing to remove their burqas. I doubt a terrorist would bother with the FOID though.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
The obvious hole in the new FOID-photo policy is that a no-photo FOID for the Amish has worked just fine for years.

There is no legitimate justification for requiring a photo of the Amish. Neither for anyone else, but we're just talking about Amish, here.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
Matthew 22:21, 'Render unto Ceasar....'

I know of no clear biblical prohibition against a photograph for the purposes of identification. Does anyone know what the basis for their objection is, or is it just 'the tradition of the elders'?

Exodus 20:4-5 deals with idols, clearly delineating them by referring to the worship of idols, differentiating them from other forms of art or representation of the human image.

Deuteronomy 5:8-9 echos that sentiment.

That aside, I've had my photo taken many times, and I'm pretty sure my name is in the Lamb's book. Is this really unreasonable?
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Matthew 22:21, 'Render unto Ceasar....'

I know of no clear biblical prohibition against a photograph for the purposes of identification. Does anyone know what the basis for their objection is, or is it just 'the tradition of the elders'?

Exodus 20:4-5 deals with idols, clearly delineating them by referring to the worship of idols, differentiating them from other forms of art or representation of the human image.

Deuteronomy 5:8-9 echos that sentiment.

That aside, I've had my photo taken many times, and I'm pretty sure my name is in the Lamb's book. Is this really unreasonable?

IMHO, it has more to do with a 'photo' being a sense of a display of pride, however they do at times use photos. My limited understanding is that different groups have different dictates and interpretations.
See http://www.amishnews.com/amisharticles/amishand photos.htm
I think, though, that a sincerely held religious belief should take precedence over a governmental requirement that really serves no purpose. Since they have been exempt, and are also exempt from some federal photo requirements, the State of Illinois should, IMHO, just drop the issue. Does the governmental need for the photo trump religious expression? In this case, I don't believe it does.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
IMHO, it has more to do with a 'photo' being a sense of a display of pride, however they do at times use photos. My limited understanding is that different groups have different dictates and interpretations.
See http://www.amishnews.com/amisharticles/amishand photos.htm
I think, though, that a sincerely held religious belief should take precedence over a governmental requirement that really serves no purpose. Since they have been exempt, and are also exempt from some federal photo requirements, the State of Illinois should, IMHO, just drop the issue. Does the governmental need for the photo trump religious expression? In this case, I don't believe it does.

Interesting read. Although I do personally chafe at some of the requirements imposed by our servants, methinks there must be some balance; otherwise, at which point does someone's personal beliefs take on the mantle of 'religion'?

Does one person's deeply held belief qualify? What if two hold the same? Is it then now a religion, or does it remain a personal preference? How many does it take, and who decides that number, before it becomes a 'religious' tenant? How many people followed Koresh? Apparently they had some deep seated beliefs regarding religion and automatic weapons. I know that's a bit extreme, but I'm offering a point.

Remembering that Abram held an unpopular, monotheistic view, he was one man. From one came three great religions; Judaism, Christianity and Islam. So, the deeply held beliefs of one are obviously significant.

How do we sort out the Koreshes and the like, from 'legitimate' religions? Again, who decides?

Alas, but I am not Solomon; I cannot say. But, I ponder these mysteries.
 

Sheldon

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
556
Location
Battle Creek, ,
This is more of a common problem than many realize, as they for religious reasons refuse to have photo ID, they cannot purchase any gun for any FFL in MI either. At one time MI would allow them an ID card that in place of a photo had the words "photo not required" but we no longer do that and simply attempting to cash a check can be a ordeal for them.
 
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