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Going Armed to the Terror of the Public

J

JohnnyRed

New member
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Fayetteville, NC
Hello all,

I am new to open carrying, and have been doing everything I can to learn the rules. I have talked to many people, and even received some answers on this website. However, the one thing I can't figure out is what going armed to the terror of the public means. When can I be charged with this? What actions would cause an officer to arrest you for this? Is there any more advice or general thoughts to help me understand?

By the way, this forum has made a big impact in Cumberland county. When I asked an officer some simple questions about open carrying, he referred me to this website, and said that the people who hang around and post on opencarry.org usually know their gun laws pretty well.
 
rotorhead

rotorhead

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Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
There are people here that have been carrying in this state for many decades and they still couldn't give you a definite answer lol. It's enforcement is highly subjective depending on the opinion and interpretation of the LEO involved, and normally ends up being a "tack on" charge in addition to other charges people get for crimes they are accused of that involved weapons.

Personally, I've read numerous cases involving this law and some times it sticks and other times it doesn't. Rarely is it used as a stand alone charge, but that doesn't mean it's unheard of, either.

Basically, it's a filler law especially because NC doesn't have much in the way of "unlawful display of a firearm" types of laws. Simply carrying your weapon in your holster and not drawing attention to it intentionally does not qualify, nor should it. Supposedly, your intent has the most bearing as to whether or not you can or will be charged with it. If you're demonstrated intent is not to cause others fear or to "terrorize" them, it's not supposed to be charged.

On the other hand if you're around other people, have your gun out, and are waving it around intending to intimidate them without threat of immediate bodily injury or death (toward you), LEOs would have a good cause to charge you with it.

That's simply my opinion of it in a nutshell. I'm not a lawyer, though. I'm sure others will be along shortly to get more in depth with it.

Good luck out there :)
 
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J

JohnnyRed

New member
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Mar 12, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Fayetteville, NC
Thanks for your input. I just want to make sure that by carrying my gun on my hip, in plain view, in unrestricted areas, I still dont end up breaking the law due to something I don't understand.
 
rotorhead

rotorhead

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Sep 18, 2010
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There is nothing illegal about carrying a gun in your holster openly as long as you are in compliance with state and federal laws, as well as other statutes such as local ordinances. Simply doing so does not indicate criminal conduct nor is it supposed to indicate intention to commit a crime.
 
A

aosailor

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Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
228
Location
Hampton, AR
from the AG:

"By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself/herself with

any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public

highways in a manner to cause terror to others."

that is what constitutes GAttToTP. idiot/bully cops try to charge this arbitrarily but most of the time it never makes it to court. Pretty much, no worries lol
 
Room C

Room C

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Feb 9, 2011
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8
Location
Fuquay Varina, NC
Thread titled NC Flyer has link to NC Open Carry Flyer (a must read/print/carry document), that has case law for GATTTOTP. Havent posted a link before and when I try it doesnt look right. Hope this helps.
 
Dreamer

Dreamer

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Sep 23, 2009
Messages
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Grennsboro NC
aosailor said:
from the AG:

"By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself/herself with

any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public

highways in a manner to cause terror to others."
Click to expand...


Actually the GAttTotP "law" (which isn't actually a statutory "law on the books", but rather is Common Law, based on a court case from the 1800's, which uses a 13th century English court case as it's fundamental precedent...) is easy to understand if you break it up like this:
"By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to:

  1. arm himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon,
  2. for the purpose of terrifying others,
  3. and go about on public highways
  4. in a manner to cause terror to others."
GAttTotP is a "four-pronged" violation, and for it to apply to any given situation, the "accused" must meet ALL FOUR criteria. If you don't meet ALL four, it is not GAttTotP. That doesn't mean no violation may have been committed, it just means that GAttTotP isn't applicable.

For instance, if someone was armed, but was on private property, and pulled out a gun and waved it around in a menacing way to terrify someone, that isn't GAttTotP, because he's NOT on a public highway. But it IS assault with a deadly weapon, and possibly Carry Concealed without a permit.

But if you're just minding your own business, OCing a handgun in a holster, and you are NOT a prohibited person, the gun is possessed legally, and you are not in a prohibited location, then GAttTotP DOES NOT and CAN NOT apply to your activities.

NC needs to create a statutory definition of "brandishing" like they have in VA, and in that statute, they need to declare that the Common Law GAttTotP violation is hereby, and thereafter, removed from the codes, conventions, and enforcement standards of NC.
 
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H

hotrod08

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Dec 28, 2009
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, ,
Dreamer said:
Actually the GAttTotP "law" (which isn't actually a statutory "law on the books", but rather is Common Law, based on a court case from the 1800's, which uses a 13th century English court case as it's fundamental precedent...) is easy to understand if you break it up like this:
"By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to:

  1. arm himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon,
  2. for the purpose of terrifying others,
  3. and go about on public highways
  4. in a manner to cause terror to others."
GAttTotP is a "four-pronged" violation, and for it to apply to any given situation, the "accused" must meet ALL FOUR criteria. If you don't meet ALL four, it is not GAttTotP. That doesn't mean no violation may have been committed, it just means that GAttTotP isn't applicable.

For instance, if someone was armed, but was on private property, and pulled out a gun and waved it around in a menacing way to terrify someone, that isn't GAttTotP, because he's NOT on a public highway. But it IS assault with a deadly weapon, and possibly Carry Concealed without a permit.

But if you're just minding your own business, OCing a handgun in a holster, and you are NOT a prohibited person, the gun is possessed legally, and you are not in a prohibited location, then GAttTotP DOES NOT and CAN NOT apply to your activities.

NC needs to create a statutory definition of "brandishing" like they have in VA, and in that statute, they need to declare that the Common Law GAttTotP violation is hereby, and thereafter, removed from the codes, conventions, and enforcement standards of NC.
Click to expand...

http://tracycarter.blogspot.com/2011/01/deep-river-shooting-injurys-one-one.html

This young man was in a Private drive (Next to his house)
When all of this occurred.
I can't wait to find out how it all goes for him, His court date is 3/30/11.
Once I find out how things turn out I will try to post.
 
H

hotrod08

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Resto Guy

Resto Guy

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M

mekender

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Dreamer

Dreamer

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hotrod8812 said:
http://tracycarter.blogspot.com/2011/01/deep-river-shooting-injurys-one-one.html

This young man was in a Private drive (Next to his house)
When all of this occurred.
I can't wait to find out how it all goes for him, His court date is 3/30/11.
Once I find out how things turn out I will try to post.
Click to expand...


They are using GAttTotP as a "pile on" charge.

Mr. Coggins has ALSO been charged with two counts of Assault with a Deadly Weapon with Intent to Kill, two counts of Injury to Personal Property as well as one count of Going Armed to the Terror of the Public (which should actually be an EASY charge to get dropped, if he was indeed on private property...)
 
Dreamer

Dreamer

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Grennsboro NC
Resto Guy said:
I'm curious as to what this guy did to get charged.

http://www.reflector.com/jail-booking/114371
Click to expand...


There is no report of Mr. McNiel on WITN's website, that I can find...

It will be interesting to find what he did to get charged with GAttTotP. I wonder if he has a public defender or a private attorney?

His trial date is May 11. That's after classes are done for the semester. I may have to put it on my calendar...

Is there any way we (I) could do a FOIA to get the arrest record, or a copy of the cite issued? We have his arrest#, and the docket# for his trial.
 
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rotorhead

rotorhead

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Anyone should be able to get a copy as they are a matter of public record. I don't think there's any "need to know" or "interested party" roadblocks with arrest reports.
 
Dreamer

Dreamer

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Grennsboro NC
Well, Mr. McNiel didn't get arrested by Greenville PD. I've searched through the arrest reports for March 15, 16, 17 and 18 and nobody by that name was arrested, and nobody was charged with GAttTotP on those days.

http://www.greenvillenc.gov/departments/police_dept/online_reports/arrests/default.asp

I also searched the incident reports and call reports, and nothing about this guy shows up...

So it must have happened in the County, and unfortunately, Pitt County doesn't put their arrest records or incident/call reports online...

And the "Reflector" website is completely down today...
 
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