Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Best Way To Ask Permission...??

  1. #1
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Silver Lake WI
    Posts
    1,249

    Best Way To Ask Permission...??

    I sometimes go into a restaurant that offers beer or wine with the meal. Some not so fancy some fancy… My next step in the open carry process would be to carry there.

    I would appreciate any thoughts on the best way to “ask permission” to carry in the types of business’s described above.

    Obviously, I would be prepared from memory to offer Constitutional Reference but, should I have printed material in the car to hand them when I ask..??? (Attorney Generals Memo, The open carry brochure, etc.)…??? .. If denied, should I offer websites for them to research?

    I am not talking about a bar or tavern that sells snacks at the bar, but maybe a bar with a separate dinning room…or an actual restaurant that sells alcohol.

    Thanks

    Outdoorsman1

  2. #2
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    I sometimes go into a restaurant that offers beer or wine with the meal. Some not so fancy some fancy… My next step in the open carry process would be to carry there.

    I would appreciate any thoughts on the best way to “ask permission” to carry in the types of business’s described above.

    Obviously, I would be prepared from memory to offer Constitutional Reference but, should I have printed material in the car to hand them when I ask..??? (Attorney Generals Memo, The open carry brochure, etc.)…??? .. If denied, should I offer websites for them to research?

    I am not talking about a bar or tavern that sells snacks at the bar, but maybe a bar with a separate dinning room…or an actual restaurant that sells alcohol.

    Thanks

    Outdoorsman1
    I can only talk from my experience and I have only done this once. I walked in unarmed and asked for the manager. When he showed up, I told him I was planning on coming into the restaurant and eating and ask if it's OK to be armed.

    The conversation from there can go all sorts of direction so just be prepared.

    If Doug was here, he would mention that the laws says something to the effect of permission of the owner or license holder so take that into consideration. Personally, I just asked for the manager on duty.

    Some other have been a little more covert about the whole permission thing but I'll let them explain it since I'm personally not comfortable with it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Watertown, WI, ,
    Posts
    383
    Thunder Bay by the Interstate at Pewaukee will grant permission. Call them up and ask for the manager. Have your phone on speaker and your recorder running. Tell the manager your name and that you would like to stop for lunch/dinner and that you would like permission to carry your sidearm. Make sure to ask his name so it is on the recording. 262-523-4244
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

  4. #4
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Paul, the law mentions the owner or manager of a business.

    My initial reaction is that if they seat me, &/or take my money for food, they've given me permission to be there. Used that rationale the other day @ lunch & everything was cool. The gal who took my money (small Chinese place) noticed the gun & said nothing. Ditto for several other diners.

    That probably wouldn't satisfy most cops or judges, so it's probably a better idea to have a printout of the law with you & ask for the manager when you say hi to the hostess.

    Method #1: Explain to the manager you'd like to eat lunch & spend money there, but the law says s/he has to OK it. Show her/him the law (maybe w/ the relevant bits highlighted), explain you won't be drinking, you just want to spend your money to buy lunch there.

    Have a second choice of place to go if s/he's afraid of inanimate objects. Also, if s/he says it's "corporate policy" not to allow self-protection I'd ask for a copy of that, just to be sure you're passing on correct information to your friends so they don't accidentally try to spend money there.

    Method #2: Just ask the manager if it's OK for you to come in & eat lunch. Don't mention the booze/gun law. I guarantee s/he'll look at you funny, but you have a better chance of getting a (puzzled) "yes, of course" this way.

    And it's odd enough that if a cop sees you & causes a problem, the manager will remember you. And since you have a printout of the law, you can explain to the Nice Officer that you're following the law completely.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-17-2011 at 03:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  5. #5
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Paul, the law mentions the owner or manager of a business.
    I am just trying to make sure people are informed. It doesn't say that, it says:
    (g) The possession or use of a handgun on the premises if
    authorized for a specific event of limited duration by the owner or
    manager of the premises who is issued the Class “B” or “Class B

    license or permit under ch. 125 for the premises.
    Emphasis added. Unfortunately, it can be read one of two ways:

    1. owner or manager (any manager) of the premises assuming the premise has a class B license
    2. owner or manager of the premises who is issued (name is on) the class b license.

    Class b licenses usually have a persons name on them as the primary licensee. It doesn't mean they are the only people allowed to serve alcohol, however, using interpretation 2 only the owner or the person named on the license can give permission.

    Personally I believe option 1 is the correct one but Doug has made some valid arguments that option 2 is. It is vague enough that it might have to be up to a court to decide. The use of the word 'who' vs. 'that' makes it sound that they mean a person, not a business.
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 03-17-2011 at 03:29 PM. Reason: clarified

  6. #6
    McX
    Guest
    i'm pretty sure Wisconsin Carry has a standardized form that should be available from the leadership to have documented permission in a class B setting.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,321
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  8. #8
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497
    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I am just trying to make sure people are informed. It doesn't say that, it says:


    Emphasis added. Unfortunately, it can be read one of two ways:

    1. owner or manager (any manager) of the premises assuming the premise has a class B license
    2. owner or manager of the premises who is issued (name is on) the class b license.

    Class b licenses usually have a persons name on them as the primary licensee. It doesn't mean they are the only people allowed to serve alcohol, however, using interpretation 2 only the owner or the person named on the license can give permission.

    Personally I believe option 1 is the correct one but Doug has made some valid arguments that option 2 is. It is vague enough that it might have to be up to a court to decide. The use of the word 'who' vs. 'that' makes it sound that they mean a person, not a business.
    Not that it could not happen, but I have yet to see a Class A or B issued to any manager. So far, all I have seen is the owner, or Corp. on the card.
    With this in mind, I would feel 100% fine with option 1 (
    1. owner or manager (any manager) of the premises assuming the premise has a class B license).
    I like the idea of the voice recording of the "permission". It could come in handy if ever needed.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Silver Lake WI
    Posts
    1,249
    Thanks... saved it.... printed it...

    Outdoorsman1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •