Hardy, VA Man Arrested for Carrying a Gun Across School Property While Hunting

2a4all · Mar 19, 2011

user said:
I think that there is a conflict among the various statutes regulating hunting. (I'm assuming he was properly licensed at the time and that whatever he was hunting was in season.) Here's the statute containing the more specific language that applies to people who are lawfully hunting:

§ 29.1-527. Counties, cities or towns may prohibit hunting near public schools and county, city, town or regional parks.

The governing body of any county, city or town may prohibit by ordinance, shooting or hunting with a firearm, or prohibit hunters from traversing an area while in possession of a loaded firearm, within 100 yards of any property line of a public school or a county, city, town or regional park. The governing body may, in such ordinance, provide that any violation thereof shall be a Class 4 misdemeanor. Nothing in this section shall give any county, city or town the authority to enforce such an ordinance on lands within a national or state park or forest, or wildlife management area.

So the question for me is whether the locality has an ordinance conforming to the statute. If not, I'd say this statute trumps the more general "thou shalt not" in 18.2, because specific controls over general.

So this statute allows the governing body to create an exclusion zone 300ft wide within any private property that adjoins such public property?:uhoh:

x3atthis · Mar 19, 2011

user said:
I think that there is a conflict among the various statutes regulating hunting. (I'm assuming he was properly licensed at the time and that whatever he was hunting was in season.) Here's the statute containing the more specific language that applies to people who are lawfully hunting:

§ 29.1-527. Counties, cities or towns may prohibit hunting near public schools and county, city, town or regional parks.

The governing body of any county, city or town may prohibit by ordinance, shooting or hunting with a firearm, or prohibit hunters from traversing an area while in possession of a loaded firearm, within 100 yards of any property line of a public school or a county, city, town or regional park. The governing body may, in such ordinance, provide that any violation thereof shall be a Class 4 misdemeanor. Nothing in this section shall give any county, city or town the authority to enforce such an ordinance on lands within a national or state park or forest, or wildlife management area.

So the question for me is whether the locality has an ordinance conforming to the statute. If not, I'd say this statute trumps the more general "thou shalt not" in 18.2, because specific controls over general.

Well the Municicode link for Bedford County is broken, of course, so after some ridiculous digging...

http://www.dgif.state.va.us/hunting/regulations/local-ordinances.pdf

The following counties and cities have regulations concerning the use and transportation of firearms. The number or numbers following
that county name indicate the regulations listed below for that particular county. In addition, certain counties have ordinances other than
those listed, primarily pertaining to possession of firearms near parks or schools, hunting or discharging firearms near populated areas,
residences, or buildings and age limitations for possession of loaded firearms on public roads. If a locality is not listed, state firearms
restrictions apply (see Legal Use of Firearms and Archery Equipment).

Hardy, as well as Bedford County, are absent from the list. So under that clause, he was within the limits of the law.

wylde007 · Mar 21, 2011

ODA 226 said:
Police officers are NOT "Law Enforcement"! Their responsibility is to present a person "suspect" of committing a crime to a Judge who "enforces" the law.

Our definitions of "enforce" are on different planes, mate!

If I am seized, I have been forced upon. Yes, police issue arrests/summonses on suspicion of violation, but they are given enough leeway to determine on their own what they "suspect" to BE a violation.

That gives them an awful lot of authority right off the bat in my opinion...

ODA 226 · Mar 21, 2011

wylde007 said:
Our definitions of "enforce" are on different planes, mate!

If I am seized, I have been forced upon. Yes, police issue arrests/summonses on suspicion of violation, but they are given enough leeway to determine on their own what they "suspect" to BE a violation.

That gives them an awful lot of authority right off the bat in my opinion...

The term "Law Enforcement Officer" is very much like the term "Homophobic"...they both sound catchy, but have no basis in fact. Police Officers were once labeled as "Peace Officers". A police officer cannot sentence you to jail, they must bring you to a judge who then "enforces" the law.

While an officer may have "leeway" as you alude to, a magistrate determines if there is enough evidence to remand a suspect to jail. Again, it is the magistrate, NOT the police officer that "enforces" the law.

Homophobic literally means "fear of the same" so if you're straight, it means that you are afraid of other straight men and NOT afraid of homosexuals.

The term "Law Enforcement Officer" was a term created as the militarization of US police forces took place in the late 1980's.

wylde007 · Mar 21, 2011

ODA 226 said:
The term "Law Enforcement Officer" was a term created as the militarization of US police forces took place in the late 1980's.

"Check" to that.

I know that municipal police were instituted as "peace officers" but indeed their purpose, their intent and the execution of their duties has degraded to more of a mercenary revenuer than servant of the People and the law.

However, a police officer can submit under the authority of the badge that a citizen has committed a crime and, more often than not, it is his word against that of the citizen. The cop is almost always given the greater benefit of the doubt by the courts and citizens then must convince that court of their innocence rather than the cop convince the court of their guilt - at least very much in the short term.

MKEgal · Mar 21, 2011

From the story x3atthis posted:

San Jose police Sgt. Ronnie Lopez said Fontano's actions created a dangerous situation, adding police always take reports of a firearm near a school very seriously.
"It's just not wise to carry a weapon around," Lopez said. "It could lead to a tragic outcome."

The dangerous situation was that the police became involved.
There was a story reported recently here on OCDO about an officer carrying a rifle & badge who was shot by another officer!
And if "carrying a weapon" can lead to a tragic outcome, why do police carry?
Doesn't he mean that normal citizens shouldn't exercise their RKBA?

Gunslinger · Mar 21, 2011

MKEgal said:
From the story x3atthis posted:

The dangerous situation was that the police became involved.
There was a story reported recently here on OCDO about an officer carrying a rifle & badge who was shot by another officer!
And if "carrying a weapon" can lead to a tragic outcome, why do police carry?
Doesn't he mean that normal citizens shouldn't exercise their RKBA?

Take the guns away from the cops and the problem will solve itself. The trouble is the mentality of a**holes like Lopez and his UberGruppenfuhrer superiors.

"We must take the guns from the people to make the streets safe for the SS."

A. Hitler

celticredneck · Mar 22, 2011

Not to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, but if he was hunting rabbits last Thursday, he was hunting out of season. According to the VDGIF website, rabbit season runs from October 30 through February 28.

Link:

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/smallgame.asp#rabbit.

Of course, maybe in today's economy he is hunting to obtain food that he is unable to afford,which is understandable.

Grapeshot · Mar 22, 2011

celticredneck said:
Not to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, but if he was hunting rabbits last Thursday, he was hunting out of season. According to the VDGIF website, rabbit season runs from October 39 through February 28.

Link:

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/smallgame.asp#rabbit.

Of course, maybe in today's economy he is hunting to obtain food that he is unable to afford,which is understandable.

He also was not charged with that........yet.

peter nap · Apr 12, 2011

lowerjon said:
Also if you know a good broker that will actually give you a good amount in loans go ahead and take it rates are low and the buy in on mountain land is insanely low.

Mortgage Brokers are pretty much history in Va. They were bottom feeders that killed their own industry.

The real deals now are having a good down payment and hitting property owned free and clear but the owners are having financial difficulty (Like facing foreclosure on another property)

You're only going to find them by talking to locals though.

USE A GOOD LAWYER!

cb5300 · Apr 13, 2011

x3atthis said:
Well the Municicode link for Bedford County is broken, of course, so after some ridiculous digging...

http://www.dgif.state.va.us/hunting/regulations/local-ordinances.pdf

Hardy, as well as Bedford County, are absent from the list. So under that clause, he was within the limits of the law.

Bedford, County code won't do you much good since he was in Franklin county....Also he said he was rabbit hunting???? Rabbit season in VA runs from Oct 30th to Feb 28th...http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/smallgame.asp#rabbit

Mike · Apr 13, 2011

Um, why is anyone discussing federal law or a hunting exception - he violated Virginia law by being on the "grounds of a school" while carrying a gun. Pretty straight forward crime.

hunter45 · Jun 15, 2011

I have a question related to K-12 school carry and didn't want to start a new thread, so I'm posting in here...

Is it OK to carry at a high school graduation if it is off K-12 school property (I would be CCing by the way)?

nova · Jun 15, 2011

hunter45 said:
I have a question related to K-12 school carry and didn't want to start a new thread, so I'm posting in here...

Is it OK to carry at a high school graduation if it is off K-12 school property (I would be CCing by the way)?

18.2-308.1

(b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place

hunter45 · Jun 16, 2011

nova said:
18.2-308.1

(b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place

Well that sucks. Thanks.

TFred · Jun 16, 2011

nova said:
18.2-308.1

(b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place

hunter45 said:
Well that sucks. Thanks.

But remember... "it's for the children..."

Children must always be fish in a barrel, no matter where they meet! It's state law. [/disgust]

TFred

user · Jun 16, 2011

But, since we've reawakened this thread, what ever happened to the gentleman from Hardy Co.? Anybody know?

Stafford_1911 · Jun 16, 2011

It appears the case was continued by the Grand Jury on the 6th of June. The next listed date is the 6th of July.

You may find the case information here: http://wasdmz2.courts.state.va.us/CJISWeb/CaseDetail.do . The case number is CR11053777-00 .

The District Court records have him listed as being released on his own recognizance.

jmelvin · Jun 16, 2011

A little searching reveals that Dwight Griffin (the man arrested) is probably the owner of "Mattress Center" in Hardy, VA.

See: http://www.manta.com/c/mmcmnyb/mattress-center

I can find no follow up to the story. Hopefully he got himself an excellent attorney.

Hardy, VA Man Arrested for Carrying a Gun Across School Property While Hunting

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