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Thread: Signs Preventing Carry

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    Signs Preventing Carry

    Hey AZ Oc'ers,

    I am a former resident of Scottsdale, and now a resident of TX...with a short stop in VA.

    There are some folks in TX that think if we ever get OC, signs will go up EVERYWHERE preventing OC or CC. When AZ enacted CC OC, did any of you find this to be the case? Did signs go up everywhere? What was your experience?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Not in Arizona personally, but living in Va. and having visited other states with similar circumstances, the response is simply: Business as usual.

    Changes in gun laws do not make otherwise good people conduct themselves poorly.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Could we get some clarification on the question? Arizona never enacted OC, and we've had CC since 1994.

    So are you asking about when we first got concealed carry 17 years ago?

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    Didn't AZ pass Constitutional Carry in 2010?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveincowtown View Post
    Didn't AZ pass Constitutional Carry in 2010?
    Sure did - but OC was never illegal before that. Primary difference this change was that no permit now required to CC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I have an experience for ya ...I was getting my truck a delux washin at the truck spa across the street from the flyng j in phoenix (not saying the name here) and went in the drivers door ,,the back door ... and security nicely asked me to leave my gun in the truck that they have put up signs in the front doors and she knows that they have none at drivers entrance. I then turned to pay for my wash and then it hit me so I told the cashier you know what ,I served in the military for all the constitutional rights and I understand that they have a right to say who carries and who don't on their property. but ,I can't support anti-constitutional business so, deal is off. Cause a clean trk ain't that important. ( that right for all you grammerista's out there I said ain't .you see I am from the south ,, we can say that cause we're special ) I then went to leave and before I got to my rig the general man was there just a asking why and I said the same thing his response was , well I just got out of the marines and you are right and to hell with that sign and he was going to get rid of it and thanks for standing for the rights that we served for. Got my trk washed and oc'ed inside at same time ...the gen man was a really nice guy,... but wait there is more ..... After leaving danny's truck spa I went to the truck stop across the street (ain't saying the name here )and noticed that they had no guns sign. so ,I went in without gun and got must have been about 40 bucks worth of stuff ,got in line and when I was one person from cashier, I said loudly with attempted supprise in vioce"all hell they have a no gun sign on their door , well with all the young men and women dying for our rights, It's just ain't right to do business here" then I set my things on the counter and said" thats it I am out of here", then left ... but this time no one stopped me. made me kinda feel like that dude in the song ...signs signs everywhere signs yeah , what I did mite not be so cooth but if we all did that then maybe these stores would see just how much signs like that effects their business, Allright now ,reread all of this again but this time put a forrest gump sound to that reading voice in your head ....your gonna love it.
    Last edited by bushwacker; 03-18-2011 at 09:08 PM.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Dude...Sentences, paragraphs...PLEASE.

    Very cool experience.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushwacker View Post
    I have an experience for ya ...
    Awesome story!

    And, thank you for your service to your country.

    Fred

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Sure did - but OC was never illegal before that. Primary difference this change was that no permit now required to CC.
    Neither was CC... but few carried CC 'n the reciprocity thing came up. Actually... how you carried never seemed to be an issue 'til the media hyped it up post '68 riots. (Not here) You were either heeled or not (State Constitution). All this CC 'permit' crap poisoned the well... 'n the noobs movin' in didn't know any better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Dude...Sentences, paragraphs...PLEASE.

    Very cool experience.
    ok I will try to break it down on the next one ...thanks tho

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    Awesome story!

    And, thank you for your service to your country.

    Fred
    glad you enjoyed reading about that experience and thank you for exercising our rights

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    I didn't see a flurry of signs pop up all over the state when Constitutional Carry was passed last year. But, I did see a "no-guns" sign at my favorite restaurant in Prescott. Though I never asked them about it directly, they know me really well and they know that me and my friends talk about guns often. The sign did come down this past January so when I am not in the mood for a beer, I CC. I am wondering if the sign went up because of Constitutional Carry and came down when they realized the sky wasn't going to fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I didn't see a flurry of signs pop up all over the state when Constitutional Carry was passed last year. But, I did see a "no-guns" sign at my favorite restaurant in Prescott.
    May I ask which restaurant that is?

    I did see a number of restaurants put up sign after restaurant carry was passed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JesseL View Post
    May I ask which restaurant that is?

    I did see a number of restaurants put up sign after restaurant carry was passed.
    Prescott Brewing Company

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Speaking of Prescott, while Moctazuma's and the Bird Cage both post 'no firearms' (and given their clientel, I understand), the Palace Saloon does not post!!!!! Yee-ha!!

    <edit> and before you jump on me for saying it, it seems that both of those bars cater to problem children. It seems it is always either 'biker night' or 'urban thug' night there. Most of the problems on the row I've ever heard of come from those two places.
    Last edited by AZkopper; 03-20-2011 at 11:41 PM.

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    The Palace is the only saloon I ever frequent, and that's really for the food and atmosphere. It's always good to see Dave walking around with his Remington.

    When I took my CCW class with Insight back in 2005, a bunch of guys from Matt's Saloon were also in the class. No idea if Matt's is posted now, but you can bet a good portion of their employees are packing.

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    Matt's is posted. I know 'cause it's my second favorite place (after the Palace).

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    Speaking of "no carry" signs, is it a per-se crime to CC in an establishment that has a "no guns" sign posted, or is it simply trespassing should you both (a) be discovered, and (b) refuse to leave or remove your weapon?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post
    Speaking of "no carry" signs, is it a per-se crime to CC in an establishment that has a "no guns" sign posted, or is it simply trespassing should you both (a) be discovered, and (b) refuse to leave or remove your weapon?
    If it's a place that sells booze for consumption, it's a Class 2 Misdemeanor (ARS 4-244.29 & ARS 4-246.A) to be caught inside unless you are seeking help for an emergency or looking for the no guns sign.

    For other business that post signs, you're dealing with a trespassing issue.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    For other business that post signs, you're dealing with a trespassing issue.
    Since I basically never go to bars, that bit shouldn't be a problem. For the rest, it sounds like it isn't a problem unless you refuse to leave if asked and force the owner to call the cops. Are AZ cops in the habit of automatic arrests for criminal trespass? That is, you're in a place with a "no guns" sign, you walk by a cop (or they walk by you) and they happen to notice (or suspect) a concealed firearm and arrest you on the spot, without any complaint?
    Last edited by randian; 04-09-2011 at 07:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post
    Since I basically never go to bars, that bit shouldn't be a problem.

    Keep in mind it's not just "bars". It's any establishment that serves alcohol for on premises consumption. That's pretty much every non-fast food restaurant there is in AZ.

    We don't have anything like Texas' 51% rule.
    Last edited by JesseL; 04-09-2011 at 11:06 PM.

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    Just my two cents:
    Without getting into the legality of it, most places would just ask you to leave if they caught you CCing and they had a sign up against it. Hell, I've seen with my own eyes people OCing in places that serve alcohol, WITH signs up, and the employees didn't care. Not that I recommend it, but it happens.
    While it certainly is possible for you to get the police called on you if you are caught CCing in a place that prohibits it, more than likely you would just be asked to leave and come back when you are unarmed. If you refuse, then you're most definitely going to get the cops called on you.

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    The Open Carry opposition in Texas are those who have been keeping it restricted.
    Those same people are the CHLers.
    For examply, Charles L. Cotton claims that HB2756 " Open Carry" wont work for Texans. The reason is because it's Licensed Open Carry. Constitutional Open carry was dead in the water because the same people didnt want anyone "Running Around without a License to carry".
    Now here's what the "Elitist" are claiming. Licensed open carry wont work because 30.06 will apply to open carry as it will be licensed. " Well thats all we could get a bill for because of their anti-constitutional Elitist ideas".
    Now their claiming we need a seperate sign for open carry. " No such thing, 30.06 is for licensed carry".
    The Elitist gun organizations are what is wrong with the right to carry in Texas.
    I dont see open carry being a problem for 30.06 signs. At first you might see them pop up, but business depends on profit, right.
    We have to deal with this right now. The reason is nobody has dealt with open carry as of now. Lets bite the bullet and get out the BBQ pits. Sooner or later the signs will come down.
    Dont let the Elitist stupidity of one old Troll stop us from restoring the rights of our children. Lets fix this so our children can keep and protect it.

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    I started this thread to discuss signs popping up in areas where OC is common. Not sure what that has to do with TX CHL Forum or Mr. Cotton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I didn't see a flurry of signs pop up all over the state when Constitutional Carry was passed last year. But, I did see a "no-guns" sign at my favorite restaurant in Prescott. Though I never asked them about it directly, they know me really well and they know that me and my friends talk about guns often. The sign did come down this past January so when I am not in the mood for a beer, I CC. I am wondering if the sign went up because of Constitutional Carry and came down when they realized the sky wasn't going to fall.
    Ditto on not seeing any change when CC passed, but I think that's because all the signs had already gone up and kept Kinko's in business a little longer back when the 'guns in bars' law passed. People went apeshit when it became legal for a CCW permit holder to CONCEALED carry into a restaurant or bar that was NOT posted and NOT allow him or herself to have a drink while in there carrying. Even though the law prevented it, the 'guns and alcohol dont mix' lemmings couldn't comprehend it, and as a result damn near every restaurant around seemed to slap up the gunbusters.

    That whole thing has finally died down some. I remember when it happened that there were tons of websites, databases, forum threads, etc. to list the pro and anti-gun establishments. Nowadays taht seems to be pretty much forgotten and us gun owners just go where we know we are welcome, and flip off those other places.

    PS: Red Lobster out in the Arrowhead area didn't seem to be posted at all. Nothing on the doors and I could only find 'no smoking' signs near the liquor license at the bar last night =)

    More to the point though, I do think that if Texas passes open carry, it will result in plenty of signs going up. If I were you, I'd welcome it for two major reasons. First, it's the restoration of a RIGHT that you should've had all along. Second, it will let you much more easily identify anti-2A businesses that shouldn't be getting your money in the first place. Trust me, there will still be businesses to meet your every need that do NOT put the signs up.

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