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I was stopped by a LEO this morning.......

Aaron1124

Regular Member
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Jul 5, 2009
Messages
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Kent, Washington, USA
A "Citizen's Arrest under Color of Law" would be one method.

ANYONE can perform a Citizen's Arrest, including Federal Officers in circumstances you described.

Yes, but I didn't mean a citizens arrest. I meant an arrest by a law enforcement officer, and if I remember correctly, it depends on the state.

Feds can enforce local laws, depending on the state. It has to be written into law by that state, and each state is different. I'll see what I can dig up for WA.
 

DevinWKuska

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Spanaway
is it jsut me, or is this statement bothering to anyone else?

can we stop with all the stereotypical BS with regards to nationality & religion....a turban alone does not make one suspect.

this kind of **** is one of the reason I frequent this place less and less...I sure as hell don't want to be associated with a group who thinks that the "non-whites" are the reason for troubles & the ones to be watched

<stepping off my soap box now>

#1 I think you folks stopped reading and missed the shirt part as part of the description. NOT turban alone!

#2 You dont know me so you cant be associated with me.

#3 I have more non-white associates then white ones. tbh most of the "white" people I know think too highly of themselves and judge anyone who doesnt live 100% legal. I grew up in some of the most Ghetto parts of washington as well as California. Some of this forums description of what a BG is offends me. But I realize that regardless of what I think that person has had some experience in their life that causes them to think that way.

#4 you REALLY need to check yourself before you try to call someone out for something. If I had said white guy with wife beater shirt and denim overalls with only 1 tooth I bet you wouldnt have been offended. If your gonna be all PC be PC 100% of the time. DIdnt hear anyone stick up for the "eh" canadians either... Be consistant or get off my case!

Now I will let it go...
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
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Nov 15, 2006
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Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Where's the Stop?

Sorry, I was slow and didn't notice til just now.

Where's the involuntary aspect that makes this a "stop" according to the thread title?

An encounter is not necessarily a stop. A stop is involuntary: detention, detainment, Terry Stop, stop--all mean the same thing.

The OP sounds like a consensual encounter.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Messages
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Whatcom County
Sorry, I was slow and didn't notice til just now.

Where's the involuntary aspect that makes this a "stop" according to the thread title?

An encounter is not necessarily a stop. A stop is involuntary: detention, detainment, Terry Stop, stop--all mean the same thing.

The OP sounds like a consensual encounter.

I don't think he meant an official stop, although that is what I had originally assumed when reading the title before the story.

I think he meant it as a figure of speech like if he said "Canadian that said eh and was wearing a turban stopped me this morning, to ask ......... ":D
 

amlevin

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Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Yes, but I didn't mean a citizens arrest. I meant an arrest by a law enforcement officer, and if I remember correctly, it depends on the state.

Feds can enforce local laws, depending on the state. It has to be written into law by that state, and each state is different. I'll see what I can dig up for WA.

Washington does not appear to have any special authorization for Federal Officers, absent which Fed's are prohibited from arresting for State Law violations.

This is pretty much the situation with Native Tribal Police. Up until recently, tribal police could not formally arrest a non Indian on their reservations, they could merely perform a essentially a citizen's arrest and then hold for local enforcement. Rather than call it a citizen's arrest with the attached liability, they merely detained the party.

Now we have selected tribal police departments, those who have qualified under State Law, able to arrest on their own any non-Indian that is violating a law without waiting for another agency to arrive.

Feds can detain and wait or perform a Citizen's Arrest under Color of Law. Really doesn't matter as if they say you aren't going anywhere, you aren't.
 

Aaron1124

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Messages
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Kent, Washington, USA
Washington does not appear to have any special authorization for Federal Officers, absent which Fed's are prohibited from arresting for State Law violations.

This is pretty much the situation with Native Tribal Police. Up until recently, tribal police could not formally arrest a non Indian on their reservations, they could merely perform a essentially a citizen's arrest and then hold for local enforcement. Rather than call it a citizen's arrest with the attached liability, they merely detained the party.

Now we have selected tribal police departments, those who have qualified under State Law, able to arrest on their own any non-Indian that is violating a law without waiting for another agency to arrive.

Feds can detain and wait or perform a Citizen's Arrest under Color of Law. Really doesn't matter as if they say you aren't going anywhere, you aren't.

You seem to be right. I didn't see anything that included Federal officials in any of the RCW's pertaining to police officers. There are some states that do include them though.

That's interesting about the Tribal Police. This whole time, I was under the impression that their reservation property was federally regulated, not state regulated. I guess I was wrong?

I am also trying to find out information on State Park Rangers and their authority. Do they receive a Commission equal to all commissioned police officers in the state of Washington? Or do they only have law enforcement authority on State Parks property?
 

Gunslinger

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Free, Colorado, USA
I am pretty sure any Federal LEO can enforce state or local laws if they are violated in their presence. I will try to cite a source in a bit.

For example, if an off duty FBI agent is at an ATM during the time of a bank robbery, I believe he can still make an arrest (non citizens) and bring in the proper jurisdiction in the meantime.

Bank robbery is a Federal Offense. 18 USC 2113.
 

Gunslinger

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Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
is it jsut me, or is this statement bothering to anyone else?

can we stop with all the stereotypical BS with regards to nationality & religion....a turban alone does not make one suspect.

this kind of **** is one of the reason I frequent this place less and less...I sure as hell don't want to be associated with a group who thinks that the "non-whites" are the reason for troubles & the ones to be watched

<stepping off my soap box now>

Statistics indicate that you are incorrect.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
To be clear, it was a casual meet. I was standing still while the dog peed and he pulled up and stopped about five meters away, both of us facing the way out of the park. We spoke, we went about our business. He was concerned, he investigated, he was satisfied.
My Sweet Baboo checked the law later and has informed me the Border Patrol has no authority outside the scope of thier employment. He cannot arrest me but if he wants to detain me, YES he can do it until the locals arrive.
My point was, a badge w/gun rolled up on me and it went well.
I say eh? on occasion. My accent just does not show up in my writing.
 

Trigger Dr

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Oct 3, 2007
Messages
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Wa, ,
OK, I have to speak up on this. As a retired Fed Agent (27 yrs) I believe that I might have the answer. (just possibly)
There are 68 Federal agencies that have LE powers. Ther majority of those agencies have jurisdiction over a specific set of laws. That being said, evene though not cross comissioned by the state, any Fed LEO, can detain until the arrival of local Le, as long as there is a compelling need to detain. This is not the normal thing but does happen.
When executing a search warrant on private property in the civilian sector, We would notify local Le. Sometimes we would have them accompany us just to get a better working relationship with local Le. There is a wide gap between some local agencies when working with Feds. It seems that there is a power struggle when the feds are called into assist a local agency.
 
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amlevin

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Messages
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
You seem to be right. I didn't see anything that included Federal officials in any of the RCW's pertaining to police officers. There are some states that do include them though.

That's interesting about the Tribal Police. This whole time, I was under the impression that their reservation property was federally regulated, not state regulated. I guess I was wrong?

I am also trying to find out information on State Park Rangers and their authority. Do they receive a Commission equal to all commissioned police officers in the state of Washington? Or do they only have law enforcement authority on State Parks property?

Take some time and read up on Public Law 280. Essentially it ceded the right to prosecute crimes committed by Indians on the Reservations to certain tribes. Previously it was the responsibility of the Federal Government and the FBI. It's a little mixed as to which tribes can and which tribes can't prosecute the crimes but it's worth reading.

Non-Indians still don't fall under jurisdiction of Tribal Government but under the jurisdiction of local and State Government. Where Tribal Officers have been certified they can arrest non Indians for committing crimes on the reservation and then turn them over to the local government for prosecution.

Where they are not certified they can merely detain while awaiting the locals to show up and perform the arrest. This used to be a problem locally with the Tulalip reservation. Lots of DUI's were stopped by the Tribal Officers but couldn't be detained beyond a "reasonable time" which many courts have determined to be in the area of 20 minutes. If a Sheriff's Deputy didn't arrive to take the person off their hands they had to release them or face "unlawful arrest" issues.

This is pretty much an outline of what's currently in effect with "PL-280 Tribes". There are more details but overall it's pretty much it.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
OK, I have to speak up on this. As a retired Fed Agent (27 yrs) I believe that I might have the answer. (just possibly)
There are 68 Federal agencies that have LE powers. Ther majority of those agencies have jurisdiction over a specific set of laws. That being said, evene though not cross comissioned by the state, any Fed LEO, can detain until the arrival of local Le, as long as there is a compelling need to detain. This is not the normal thing but does happen.
When executing a search warrant on private property in the civilian sector, We would notify local Le. Sometimes we would have them accompany us just to get a better working relationship with local Le. There is a wide gap between some local agencies when working with Feds. It seems that there is a power struggle when the feds are called into assist a local agency.

Like the powers every citizen has of "citizen arrest"?
 

amlevin

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Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
There is a wide gap between some local agencies when working with Feds. It seems that there is a power struggle when the feds are called into assist a local agency.

Gee, could it be that the behavior of most Fed's might have something to do with that? Seems like most are always wanting to stomp all over the "locals" so they can justify their existence when it comes "Budget Time".

Not all but more than enough to "p!$$ off the "Locals". The ones that have to answer to their community every day, not just "drop in, take credit, and then get on a plane".

Makes you wonder how much redundancy there is in Federal Law Enforcement with 68 agencies swimming in the same pool.
 

Aaron1124

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Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,044
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
Take some time and read up on Public Law 280. Essentially it ceded the right to prosecute crimes committed by Indians on the Reservations to certain tribes. Previously it was the responsibility of the Federal Government and the FBI. It's a little mixed as to which tribes can and which tribes can't prosecute the crimes but it's worth reading.

Non-Indians still don't fall under jurisdiction of Tribal Government but under the jurisdiction of local and State Government. Where Tribal Officers have been certified they can arrest non Indians for committing crimes on the reservation and then turn them over to the local government for prosecution.

Where they are not certified they can merely detain while awaiting the locals to show up and perform the arrest. This used to be a problem locally with the Tulalip reservation. Lots of DUI's were stopped by the Tribal Officers but couldn't be detained beyond a "reasonable time" which many courts have determined to be in the area of 20 minutes. If a Sheriff's Deputy didn't arrive to take the person off their hands they had to release them or face "unlawful arrest" issues.

This is pretty much an outline of what's currently in effect with "PL-280 Tribes". There are more details but overall it's pretty much it.

Interesting read. I do know that many reservation/tribal officers are contracted county deputies. I wonder if they have to abide by the same laws, even though they're commissioned as a police officer in the state of Washington.
 

Trigger Dr

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Wa, ,
Gee, could it be that the behavior of most Fed's might have something to do with that? Seems like most are always wanting to stomp all over the "locals" so they can justify their existence when it comes "Budget Time".

Not all but more than enough to "p!$$ off the "Locals". The ones that have to answer to their community every day, not just "drop in, take credit, and then get on a plane".

Makes you wonder how much redundancy there is in Federal Law Enforcement with 68 agencies swimming in the same pool.

+10 But gee how did you figure that out?
 

Gunslinger

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Messages
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Free, Colorado, USA
Well then let's reverse roles, and pretend that it's a city policeman at the ATM.

Robbery is a state offense, bank or 7-11. In either case, either cop could make the arrest. The reality is that a bank robber arrested by a local cop would be turned over to the FBI for a Federal trial in most, but not all, cases. Federal law takes precedence.
 

Aaron1124

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Kent, Washington, USA
Robbery is a state offense, bank or 7-11. In either case, either cop could make the arrest. The reality is that a bank robber arrested by a local cop would be turned over to the FBI for a Federal trial in most, but not all, cases. Federal law takes precedence.

A few years back, I was down in Des Moines when the Bank of America was robbed by a name who had just hit multiple banks in Kent. He was caught, and shot by the Des Moines police. The Des Moines Police took evidence on site, and then stayed there when the FBI came out to investigate. I was actually on the King 5 News that night.
 
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