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Thread: Will we ever be allowed to carry in bars?

  1. #1
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    Will we ever be allowed to carry in bars?

    i had a question, u think we will ever be allowed to carry in places such as bars, nightclubs, etc..? i feel like most violent crimes happen there more than any other place because the amount of drunk/crazy people there...

    u think it will ever happen?

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    Unlikely in the extreme. For precisely the reasons you mentioned.
    It's been done and tried-didnt work out so well for most folks. Booze and cars are bad enough. Booze, yahoos and guns in the same place?....not many good outcomes..

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Unlikely in the extreme. For precisely the reasons you mentioned.
    It's been done and tried-didnt work out so well for most folks. Booze and cars are bad enough. Booze, yahoos and guns in the same place?....not many good outcomes..


    Please show me a way to unsee Virginia, where until recently, it was REQUIRED and worked very well...
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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    It's been done and tried-didnt work out so well for most folks.
    Cite please.

    It is legal in CO and other states. It is legal in GA with owners permission. In GA, there is no law against drinking and carrying...Not even a law against being drunk and carrying.

    I will challenge you to cite where there are issues (with LAW ABIDING CITIZENS) where it is legal.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Unlikely in the extreme. For precisely the reasons you mentioned.
    It's been done and tried-didnt work out so well for most folks. Booze and cars are bad enough. Booze, yahoos and guns in the same place?....not many good outcomes..
    I think it's likely the ban will be repealed someday. It is ridiculous in the extreme and many states have no such prohibition. People have boozing parties every day at their homes with access to guns galore. What's the difference? Anyone who is for the bar ban hasn't thought it through very well.

    Freedom is dead or dying in every single aspect of life today except for gun rights. The 2nd amendment is off of the respirator and breathing on its own again, even if it's still unconscious. If SB 234 passes, I have a glimmer of hope that most of those places on the list will be gone and we'll have constitutional carry here.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    All I can find are citations to the opposite.

    That and a whole lot of nothing bad happening.

    It is impossible to prove a negative. Requesting that which is known to be impossible shows a desire to deceive on the part of the requesting entity.
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    We're working on a responsible bill for this to be introduced next year.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    We're working on a responsible bill for this to be introduced next year.
    Shouldn't be that hard of a sell, especially if it says carriers may not drink while at the bar. Schools will be more difficult, but after a few more states pass it and the sky doesn't fall, it will be easier. It's horrible that people are disarmed AROUND schools because they can't bring their guns IN school. Another thing that Fl is behind on is letting permit holders have concealed guns in their cars at public elementary and secondary schools. I can't even imagine how many felonies are committed every day by innocent parents picking up or dropping their kids off at school.
    Last edited by 77zach; 03-18-2011 at 07:43 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    it's legal in PA, and i've done it
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    Well. I was thinking of Tombstone in around 1881, but..

    Should it be legal to do so?,sure why not. Should many folks be doing so? mm no..

    example= can you imagine sitting in a bar, and 2 stools down is Ixtow with about 4 shots too many of tequila down the hatch, an AK-pistol duct-taped to the leg of his shorts,launching into a conspiracy rant?

    mmmm not a good recipe.....

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Well. I was thinking of Tombstone in around 1881, but..

    Should it be legal to do so?,sure why not. Should many folks be doing so? mm no..

    example= can you imagine sitting in a bar, and 2 stools down is Ixtow with about 4 shots too many of tequila down the hatch, an AK-pistol duct-taped to the leg of his shorts,launching into a conspiracy rant?

    mmmm not a good recipe.....
    See, that's just it. AS crazy as he might seem for duct-taping his AK-pistol to his short shorts, he is smart enough to know not to get plastered while carrying.

    AFAIK the law against carrying under the influence has never been challenged to detemine what level of influence is the threshold point. Regardless, here in Virginia it is considered "bad form" to drink while carrying even though it is probably legal to do so when OCing (verboten if CCing).

    We (all of us here at OCDO and most of the rest of the gun community) are law-abiding folk. That's the point the lawmakers and ninnies seem to miss. There are already laws against shooting folks, and against getting too drunk, and most everything else that's bad. There's no need to make another law against doing stuff already against the law while carrying. But the ninnies want to make sure that anything involving a gun is made double-plus-ultra illegal just because it was done within a hemisphere of an eeevilll gun.

    stay safe.

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    Here's the thing. Im as hardcore gun-nut as the rest. Probably more so. Im not big on nanny-state laws,etc. either-far from it. BUT, one exception I do have is folks in bars, drinking with thier gun on thier hips.
    Yes, Im sure most folks consider themselves to be mature enough, and possessing enough common-sense to handle themselves, their drinks AND their gun at the same time.BUT -Im not as open to the idea of a benefit of a doubt for most folks.
    I like my drinks as much as anyone, but I dont frequent bars/night clubs much, if at all, myself.
    But we all know one or two boneheads who -when sober- are perfectly sane, rational folks. But get a beer or 9 into them, and common-sense and rationality go right down the toilet. Do I really want that clown to be packing when he/she does go off the deep end?

    Heck, the sheer number of DUI's and drunk-driving accidents resulting in death, and sometimes even worse-severe injuries- to others ,should be testament enough to why it's not the brightest idea. With a gun, the bonehead doesnt even have to go anywhere else to bring a lot of lives to end.

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    Regular Member celticredneck's Avatar
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    There is a big difference in Virginia, and it was argued over and over during the period where the "so called concealed carry in bars" was passed. We don't have bars in Virginia. So, we can now conceal carry in restaurants which serve alcohol in Virginia. I for one do not go to those establishments to drink, but to dine out. Do I carry there? Yes, most of the time. Do I drink while carrying? No. I treat it the same as when I'm driving. If I plan on drinking, I don't drink or drive. I use a designated driver, and my wife will soon be able to carry concealed. She can already open carry.

    And, oh yes, guess what. In the year or so since Conceal carry in places which serve alcohol was passed there has not been a rash of gun/alcohol related incidents(as predicted by the antis). Of course we all knew that would be true since we've always been able to open carry in alcohol serving establishments.
    Last edited by celticredneck; 03-19-2011 at 08:54 AM.
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    A few weeks ago my wife and I went to dinner with friends for a birthday. It was starting to rain outside when we got to the restaurant and the place was pretty busy. We were told it would be about a 30 minute wait for our table.

    The only places available to wait for our table were outside (in the rain) or the bar area where a table had just opened up.

    Option 1: Wait at the bar.
    Option 2: Wait at a bar section table.
    Option 3: Get wet.
    Option 4: Go elsewhere.

    Well, I had a dilemma. I was lawfully carrying a concealed firearm and that made options 1 and 2 a criminal act in Florida. Option 4 was not really a viable option, the birthday girl had chosen this restaurant and had been looking forward to the meal there for weeks.

    So, being a law abiding and responsible person I did what nobody other than a person carrying a firearm would do. I got wet and was disarmed.
    I ran to my vehicle in the pouring rain and discretely put my firearm in the glove-box.
    When I returned the restaurant I was soaked. I went immediately to the restroom to try off with those little paper towels that barely dry your hands properly.

    By the time I got reasonably dried off and rejoined my bewildered party, our table was ready.

    Florida's bar area ban is overly restrictive and serves no useful purpose other than to put a chilling effect on carry by lawful and responsible people who choose to take responsibility for the safety of themselves and their loved ones.
    Last edited by StogieC; 03-19-2011 at 09:29 AM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    A few weeks ago my wife and I went to dinner with friends for a birthday. It was starting to rain outside when we got to the restaurant and the place was pretty busy. We were told it would be about a 30 minute wait for our table.

    The only places available to wait for our table were outside (in the rain) or the bar area where a table had just opened up.

    Option 1: Wait at the bar.
    Option 2: Wait at a bar section table.
    Option 3: Get wet.
    Option 4: Go elsewhere.

    Well, I had a dilemma. I was lawfully carrying a concealed firearm and that made options 1 and 2 a criminal act in Florida. Option 4 was not really a viable option, the birthday girl had chosen this restaurant and had been looking forward to the meal there for weeks.

    So, being a law abiding and responsible person I did what nobody other than a person carrying a firearm would do. I got wet and was disarmed.
    I ran to my vehicle in the pouring rain and discretely put my firearm in the glove-box.
    When I returned the restaurant I was soaked. I went immediately to the restroom to try off with those little paper towels that barely dry your hands properly.

    By the time I got reasonably dried off and rejoined my bewildered party, our table was ready.

    Florida's bar area ban is overly restrictive and serves no useful purpose other than to put a chilling effect on carry by lawful and responsible people who choose to take responsibility for the safety of themselves and their loved ones.
    I have carried in the "bar area" but not at the bar itself. That's at least what the seminole county sheriff's office believes is the law.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I have carried in the "bar area" but not at the bar itself. That's at least what the seminole county sheriff's office believes is the law.
    Never accept a legal opinion from a law enforcement officer. That is the purview of the courts and and attorney general. In this case, the Seminole County Sheriff has dangerously misinformed you.

    Florida Statute 790.06(12)
    "No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose, ..."
    Last edited by StogieC; 03-19-2011 at 09:51 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Florida Statute 790.06(12)
    "No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose, ..."
    Florida Firearms Attorney Patrick Buckley has produced a video to help clear up confusion about prohibited places...
    The bar area issue is addressed at 6:00 in the video


  18. #18
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Never accept a legal opinion from a law enforcement officer. That is the purview of the courts and and attorney general. In this case, the Seminole County Sheriff has dangerously misinformed you.

    Florida Statute 790.06(12)
    "No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose, ..."
    "Primarily devoted to such purpose" I'm talking about at, say, outback steakhouse, the "bar area." The tables, not the stools at the bar. Looking at the tables in this bar area everyone was eating steaks and hamburgers drinking ice teas and cokes. The law is ambiguous enough to keep me from OCing in that area but not CC. If I was found out and arrested (exceedingly remote possibility) I don't think I'd be convicted. Do you know of examples where people have been convicted for eating at the tables around but separate from the bar?

  19. #19
    Regular Member RussP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    ...Please show me a way to unsee Virginia, where until recently, it was REQUIRED and worked very well...
    I'd like to "see" that, too.
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  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    "Primarily devoted to such purpose" I'm talking about at, say, outback steakhouse, the "bar area." The tables, not the stools at the bar. Looking at the tables in this bar area everyone was eating steaks and hamburgers drinking ice teas and cokes. The law is ambiguous enough to keep me from OCing in that area but not CC. If I was found out and arrested (exceedingly remote possibility) I don't think I'd be convicted. Do you know of examples where people have been convicted for eating at the tables around but separate from the bar?
    I'm going to trust my attorney, who is a specialist in Florida firearms law and CWFL instructor, on this one. Best to not be in the bar area.
    See video w/ pixar quality graphics.

  21. #21
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    I'm going to trust my attorney, who is a specialist in Florida firearms law and CWFL instructor, on this one. Best to not be in the bar area.
    See video w/ pixar quality graphics.
    better safe than sorry!

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Sean, the time it took to run out to the car, stow your weapon, return, and go to the men's room to dry off was probably less than if you'd have just gone to the men's room to being with and stared at yourself in the mirror or washed your hands a few times, or taken a (reference deleted for propriety's sake). You are correct as to what both Patrick has said and what the statute says. However I recall seeing comments from a state attorney that unless you were sitting at the bar proper, the case would be very difficult to prosecute, especially since in your case you hadn't had a drop to drink at that point. And, had you been arrested and charged, you lawyer would be negligent if he didn't introduce the fact that you were directed there temporarily by restaurant staff, as opposed to being there of your own volition.
    Last edited by Rich7553; 03-19-2011 at 11:20 AM.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Sean, the time it took to run out to the car, stow your weapon, return, and go to the men's room to dry off was probably less than if you'd have just gone to the men's room to being with and stared at yourself in the mirror or washed your hands a few times, or taken a (reference deleted for propriety's sake). You are correct as to what both Patrick has said and what the statute says. However I recall seeing comments from a state attorney that unless you were sitting at the bar proper, the case would be very difficult to prosecute, especially since in your case you hadn't had a drop to drink at that point. And, had you been arrested and charged, you lawyer would be negligent if he didn't introduce the fact that you were directed there temporarily by restaurant staff, as opposed to being there of your own volition.
    Agreed.

    Regardless it's a very stupid law. I don't think it would be difficult to repeal as long as the carrier cannot drink while at a "bar."

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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Agreed.

    Regardless it's a very stupid law. I don't think it would be difficult to repeal as long as the carrier cannot drink while at a "bar."
    I would not support such a stipulation.

    Because some knucklehead wants to go clubbing while carrying a firearm is not a reason to deprive me of the ability to enjoy a good glass of wine or lager during my meal, regardless if I'm sitting at the 'bar' or at a table in the restaurant. Why shouldn't I be able to go to a 'bar' with some friends to shoot pool and have a couple of cold ones?

    Right now, it's perfectly legal to be snot-slinging drunk and carry (not smart, but legal). Have there been any issues with this? Nope.

    Beware unintended consequences.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    I would not support such a stipulation.

    Because some knucklehead wants to go clubbing while carrying a firearm is not a reason to deprive me of the ability to enjoy a good glass of wine or lager during my meal, regardless if I'm sitting at the 'bar' or at a table in the restaurant. Why shouldn't I be able to go to a 'bar' with some friends to shoot pool and have a couple of cold ones?

    Right now, it's perfectly legal to be snot-slinging drunk and carry (not smart, but legal). Have there been any issues with this? Nope.

    Beware unintended consequences.
    I don't support any species of "gun control." The political reality is another matter. Our rulers are not freedom lovers and they are not rational. A girl was killed by an underage drunk kid off campus with a long gun and so we can't have sober 21 years old with permits carrying on campus. This is what we're up against.

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