77zach
Regular Member
better safe than sorry!
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Will we ever be allowed to carry in bars?
- Thread starter hvtopiwala
- Start date
better safe than sorry!
Sean, the time it took to run out to the car, stow your weapon, return, and go to the men's room to dry off was probably less than if you'd have just gone to the men's room to being with and stared at yourself in the mirror or washed your hands a few times, or taken a (reference deleted for propriety's sake). You are correct as to what both Patrick has said and what the statute says. However I recall seeing comments from a state attorney that unless you were sitting at the bar proper, the case would be very difficult to prosecute, especially since in your case you hadn't had a drop to drink at that point. And, had you been arrested and charged, you lawyer would be negligent if he didn't introduce the fact that you were directed there temporarily by restaurant staff, as opposed to being there of your own volition.
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77zach
Regular Member
Agreed.
Regardless it's a very stupid law. I don't think it would be difficult to repeal as long as the carrier cannot drink while at a "bar."
rvrctyrngr
Regular Member
I would not support such a stipulation.
Because some knucklehead wants to go clubbing while carrying a firearm is not a reason to deprive me of the ability to enjoy a good glass of wine or lager during my meal, regardless if I'm sitting at the 'bar' or at a table in the restaurant. Why shouldn't I be able to go to a 'bar' with some friends to shoot pool and have a couple of cold ones?
Right now, it's perfectly legal to be snot-slinging drunk and carry (not smart, but legal). Have there been any issues with this? Nope.
Beware unintended consequences.
77zach
Regular Member
I don't support any species of "gun control." The political reality is another matter. Our rulers are not freedom lovers and they are not rational. A girl was killed by an underage drunk kid off campus with a long gun and so we can't have sober 21 years old with permits carrying on campus. This is what we're up against.
rvrctyrngr
Regular Member
I understand full-well what we're up against.
I simply would not support adding one restriction to remove another, and there is absolutely no reason to offer that up (no drinking while carrying) from the get-go.
Adding a new restriction would be a bone headed move. That won't be allowed to fly in any bill we support.
rvrctyrngr
Regular Member
[
"Right now, it's perfectly legal to be snot-slinging drunk and carry (not smart, but legal). Have there been any issues with this? Nope."
Oh, rly? lol. Be sure to check in with your nearest Trauma Center on any given weekend night.Tonite, for example would be an excellent one. Just because every incident that happens doesnt show up on the evening news, doesnt mean they dont happen.Over the years that I worked in one,we saw, almost nightly the "issues" with this. Esp. from these urban "hip hop" clubs, and the clubs around the college campuses. On avg? sometimes as many as 4 per night.
Dont kid yourselves ,folks.Yes, YOU might be that ultra-mature individual who can handle his booze AND his gun. But the hothead 10' away who turns into a nasty drunk after a bottle or glass or two of liquid macho?:banghead: :banghead:
"Right now, it's perfectly legal to be snot-slinging drunk and carry (not smart, but legal). Have there been any issues with this? Nope."
Oh, rly? lol. Be sure to check in with your nearest Trauma Center on any given weekend night.Tonite, for example would be an excellent one. Just because every incident that happens doesnt show up on the evening news, doesnt mean they dont happen.Over the years that I worked in one,we saw, almost nightly the "issues" with this. Esp. from these urban "hip hop" clubs, and the clubs around the college campuses. On avg? sometimes as many as 4 per night.
Dont kid yourselves ,folks.Yes, YOU might be that ultra-mature individual who can handle his booze AND his gun. But the hothead 10' away who turns into a nasty drunk after a bottle or glass or two of liquid macho?:banghead: :banghead:
rvrctyrngr
Regular Member
Which is why we have laws to deal with idiots. Don't limit my freedom because of what someone else might do. Thugs dropping thugs at some hip-hop club is no basis for legislative action. I'd have no problem dealing with the hothead 10' away full of liquid courage. Certainly wouldn't be the first time.
How many of those 'incidents' were the result of felonious action on the part of a lawful CWFL holder?
Surprisingly, roughly half of them. Ya, that threw me for a loop, myself. But having a permit/otherwise being "lawful" does not preclude one from being a Darwin Awardee, or any great deal more civic common-sense than the next guy.
rvrctyrngr
Regular Member
77zach
Regular Member
I would never offer that restriction (not drinking) up front, but a Dean or a Thrasher type would probably kill it unless a stupid amendment were offered. I'll take any more freedom that we can get, with school carry the most important.
When OCing at school is allowed in Florida as it is in Utah, a major victory will have been won. The fact that a peaceful person cannot do it right now, is a tacit admission that being armed is profane; that an enlightened person would never be armed at a sacred "institution of higher learning" or around innocent children. School is were people are taught that it is proper that only the police should have guns. Removing schools from the prohibited list will help change that attitude when daddy picks up junior OCing.
When OCing at school is allowed in Florida as it is in Utah, a major victory will have been won. The fact that a peaceful person cannot do it right now, is a tacit admission that being armed is profane; that an enlightened person would never be armed at a sacred "institution of higher learning" or around innocent children. School is were people are taught that it is proper that only the police should have guns. Removing schools from the prohibited list will help change that attitude when daddy picks up junior OCing.
Kingfish
Regular Member
celticredneck
Regular Member
The new Virginia conceal carry in places which serve alcohol is no drinking while carrying concealed. However I could and still can drink while open carrying. That said, I don't
To make matters even more confusing, Commonwealth attorneys, Assistant commonwealth attorneys, current and retired leos and, not to be left out, the Harbormaster of the port of Hopewell Virginia are allowed to carry a concealed handgun and drink. We desperately need to vote out a couple of idiotic state senators in Virginia so that we can get this crap changed.
To make matters even more confusing, Commonwealth attorneys, Assistant commonwealth attorneys, current and retired leos and, not to be left out, the Harbormaster of the port of Hopewell Virginia are allowed to carry a concealed handgun and drink. We desperately need to vote out a couple of idiotic state senators in Virginia so that we can get this crap changed.
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77zach
Regular Member
Can't help you when it comes to people with CWFL's, but checking the keep and bear arms website under their "the authorities" section, i've lost count of how many off duty cops, especially for some reason NYPD, take their guns to a club off duty and end up shooting or negligently discharging when someone who talks to their date the wrong way. The last one that I know of happened with an off duty cop in Baltimore. I believe this incident ended up in multiple homicides.
These are the only ones trusted enough to carry in maryland.
timf343
Campaign Veteran
Virginia is a good example because of the recent debate and law change there. The change hasn't resulted in blood in the streets. But Las Vegas is the shining star of how guns & bars can mix. Here in Nevada, it's perfectly legal to go into a bar, nightclub, casino, etc while carrying. It's also perfectly legal to drink CC or OC. The law (NRS 202.257) states you must have a BAC of less than 0.10 to be legal. This town has 24 hour drinking and gambling, visitors from all over the world, and is a magnet for fugitives and delinquents. Despite all that, guns in bars has never been a topic the police department has felt to be a problem, nor has any lobby ever sought to change that law.
So while we might debate whether drinking and guns mix, no one will ever be able to convince me that prohibiting a CC or OC person from even entering such an establishment is logical.
So while we might debate whether drinking and guns mix, no one will ever be able to convince me that prohibiting a CC or OC person from even entering such an establishment is logical.
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KBCraig
Regular Member
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
Expect it from this guy. He's an Only One and believes only in his own kind. He's made it very clear.
randian
Regular Member
I disagree. The relevant criterion should be intoxication, not location. It should be perfectly legal to carry in a bar while not intoxicated. Why should I have to disarm myself when out with friends or if I'm a designated driver? Isn't the latter what we want people to do?
There are ambiguous situations right now that need fixing, even if you don't allow carry in "bars". There are restaurants like Morton's and Grand Lux Cafe that have "bars" where 90% of the floor space is tables for quick service of food outside the dining room. I'd like to eat there without being on the hook for a felony conviction.
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