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Thread: Chesterfield Man arrested for open carrying NEAR a school

  1. #1
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    Chesterfield Man arrested for open carrying NEAR a school

    WWBT-12 just had a confusing story about a Chesterfield man arrested today for open carrying a handgun near a school. The charge was carrying on school property, but the story clearly stated he was "near" the school while walking near his house and that the police said "he was close enough that we could charge him". What does that mean? I have no idea what to make of this. The story did state that Chesterfield police said there was no malicious intent and no one was ever in any danger. His sister-in-law was interviewed and she was quite calm and articulate. As soon as I find a link to the actual story, I'll post it. I'm sure there is more to this and I'm not claiming to have any facts other than the few (confusing) facts in the story.

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    I saw that story and thought " What the..."
    Arrested NEAR a school and he was "close enough they could charge him with possession ON school property"

    We need more details and the public needs to be desensitized to OC.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    QUESTION ONLY --

    Is it possible he was within 1000' and not in possession of a concealed handgun permit?

    Shoddy reporting, but the only circumstance I can think of that would generate a report like this.
    Last edited by Tess; 03-18-2011 at 06:34 PM.

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    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    QUESTION ONLY --

    Is it possible he was within 1000' and not in possession of a concealed handgun permit?

    Shoddy reporting, but the only circumstance I can think of that would generate a report like this.
    YES - they said said he was very near the school and his sister-in-law said he had taken a concealed handgun class and had applied for his permit but did not yet have a CHP issued.
    Last edited by SicSemperTyrannis; 03-18-2011 at 07:37 PM. Reason: clarified what specifically "his sister-in-law said"

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Well maybe we'll see version 2 of the GFSZA tested. Doubt it though.

    I'd be interested in the specifics. I open carry on a sidewalk bordering an elementary school nearly every day. The last 3 places at which I've resided have been within 1000' feet of a school.
    Last edited by t33j; 03-18-2011 at 06:55 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Has to be a Federal charge...

    If he wasn't on school property, then he didn't violate 18.2-308.1. There's no other Virginia statute about this, so the ONLY thing he could have been jacked up for was the Federal GFSZA. Does the story say he was turned over to the Feds for processing?

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    To be charged with the GFSZA, Does he have to be charged by a FED LEO or just brought before a FED magistrate by a local or state LEO?
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    To be charged with the GFSZA, Does he have to be charged by a FED LEO or just brought before a FED magistrate by a local or state LEO?
    Generally speaking, local LEA does not have jurisdiction to enforce federal law, although they can/may detain one and then turn them over to the feds. The reason this can be a cloudy issue is because so many LEAs have so many cooperative agreements and mutual task force memberships with the feds in which they are "authorized" to act on laws at multiple levels.

    Unfortunately, unless someone does the legwork to dig out the paperwork we may never know the status of his arrest charge (local, state, or federal violation).

    stay safe.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Calling VCDL, Calling VCDL

    Well, if the news report is accurate, somebody is about to get an education. It would be great low hanging fruit for SAF if there was an actual federal charge brought for being within 1000' of a school. No Commonwealth crime if not at school.

    Something interesting to watch.
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    http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.asp?S=14280804

    Hope one of the 2A lawyers gets to him and helps him out, maybe look into whether his ethnicity played into it as well.
    Last edited by TraumaRN; 03-18-2011 at 10:57 PM.

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    Is this the first (known) incident of someone not already in the commission of another crime being charged for being within 1000' of a school while carrying, without the 'protection' of a CHP in the state?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaRN View Post
    WTF - amending/making up laws as they go along?

    "Police say Alkabily was not on the school campus but close enough to the school that the department could charge him with possessing a firearm while on school property."
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    Is this the first (known) incident of someone not already in the commission of another crime being charged for being within 1000' of a school while carrying, without the 'protection' of a CHP in the state?
    Nope - we have a twofer - both the same date.

    http://www.thefranklinnewspost.com/article.cfm?ID=18635
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    WTF - amending/making up laws as they go along?

    "Police say Alkabily was not on the school campus but close enough to the school that the department could charge him with possessing a firearm while on school property."
    I was thinking the same thing - they intend to charge him for doing something they admit he's not doing? I'd like to see how that works.

    That said, this is exactly why when walking the neighborhood, I don't walk on the sidewalk directly in front of the school - I cross the street.

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    With this old timer and the youngster across from the school if the feds do not press the issue (and for the sake of these folks I hope they don't) it will become even more apparent that the only purpose of the GFSZA is to provide a big threat against those who want to follow the law while meaning nothing to those who willingly break it with intent to cause harm.

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    I'm passing this thread on to John Fenter. He's heading up VCDL's efforts to fix or repeal the GFSZA.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    So if a cop sees me smoking a hand-rolled tobacco cigarette, can he arrest me for possession of marijuana--because it was "close enough" to looking like a joint?

    WTF?
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    So if a cop sees me smoking a hand-rolled tobacco cigarette, can he arrest me for possession of marijuana--because it was "close enough" to looking like a joint?

    WTF?
    Well, actually, yes he can. Looking like a joint is RAS enough for the arrest.

    The better question is: can you be convicted because it was "close enough"?

    The cops who arrested the young man who was not on school property but "close enough" ought to be found not to have had RAS -- but the probability of that may be slim.

    stay safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, actually, yes he can. Looking like a joint is RAS enough for the arrest.
    Reasonable articulable suspicion is the standard to temproarily seize a person, not to arrest her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riana View Post
    I was thinking the same thing - they intend to charge him for doing something they admit he's not doing? I'd like to see how that works.

    That said, this is exactly why when walking the neighborhood, I don't walk on the sidewalk directly in front of the school - I cross the street.
    They will have a revelation of memory that they actually saw him on school property and their reports will be 'amended' - unless there were cameras rolling.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Don't know if anyone has noticed this before but U.S. Code 18,922 says nothing about a concealed carry permit or for that matter any permit at all. What it does say is you are exempt from the statute if you have a license from your state to possess a firearm and that the state has verified that you are qualified to received said license. As we know, Virginia has no such thing as a license to posses a firearm which would seem to make this section of the code null and void. Here's what the section actually says:

    "(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"

    You can see that nothing regarding a permit to carry of any sort is mentioned in this section, only a license granted by the state to possess a firearm. Since words have meaning, how do you folks see this section in terms of the subject of this thread or any thread where a citizen carries within the infamous 1000' radius?
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    I Don't Want To Sound Like A Sea Lawyer ....

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Don't know if anyone has noticed this before but U.S. Code 18,922 says nothing about a concealed carry permit or for that matter any permit at all. What it does say is you are exempt from the statute if you have a license from your state to possess a firearm and that the state has verified that you are qualified to received said license. As we know, Virginia has no such thing as a license to posses a firearm which would seem to make this section of the code null and void. Here's what the section actually says:

    "(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"

    You can see that nothing regarding a permit to carry of any sort is mentioned in this section, only a license granted by the state to possess a firearm. Since words have meaning, how do you folks see this section in terms of the subject of this thread or any thread where a citizen carries within the infamous 1000' radius?
    .... oh, heck, yes I do.

    I like to think that my State license to possess a firearm is the Constitution of Virginia, to wit:

    Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.
    That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

    (emphasis added)

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.
    That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

    (emphasis added)[/QUOTE]

    I hope he sues. Gets rid of this "GFZ" crap. Basicly it makes anyone who lives near a school if you go buy a gun you could be a felon for living 1000 feet from a school. What if you had to shoot in your house for self defence?

    Schools should ban all cars on their property.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 03-19-2011 at 12:42 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    I hope he sues. Gets rid of this "GFZ" crap. Basicly it makes anyone who lives near a school if you go buy a gun you could be a felon for living 1000 feet from a school. What if you had to shoot in your house for self defence?
    See exemption (i)
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  25. #25
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    See exemption (i)
    "(i) on private property not part of school grounds;"

    This?

    Well what if you live directly across the street from a school and you just came home from the gun store and bought a gun? would that be a felon or are you exempted? You had to drive 1000' feet of a school to get home.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 03-19-2011 at 01:35 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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