Chesterfield Man arrested for open carrying NEAR a school

SouthernBoy · Mar 19, 2011

Don't know if anyone has noticed this before but U.S. Code 18,922 says nothing about a concealed carry permit or for that matter any permit at all. What it does say is you are exempt from the statute if you have a license from your state to possess a firearm and that the state has verified that you are qualified to received said license. As we know, Virginia has no such thing as a license to posses a firearm which would seem to make this section of the code null and void. Here's what the section actually says:

"(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"

You can see that nothing regarding a permit to carry of any sort is mentioned in this section, only a license granted by the state to possess a firearm. Since words have meaning, how do you folks see this section in terms of the subject of this thread or any thread where a citizen carries within the infamous 1000' radius?

USNA69 · Mar 19, 2011

I Don't Want To Sound Like A Sea Lawyer ....

SouthernBoy said:
Don't know if anyone has noticed this before but U.S. Code 18,922 says nothing about a concealed carry permit or for that matter any permit at all. What it does say is you are exempt from the statute if you have a license from your state to possess a firearm and that the state has verified that you are qualified to received said license. As we know, Virginia has no such thing as a license to posses a firearm which would seem to make this section of the code null and void. Here's what the section actually says:

"(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"

You can see that nothing regarding a permit to carry of any sort is mentioned in this section, only a license granted by the state to possess a firearm. Since words have meaning, how do you folks see this section in terms of the subject of this thread or any thread where a citizen carries within the infamous 1000' radius?

.... oh, heck, yes I do.

I like to think that my State license to possess a firearm is the Constitution of Virginia, to wit:

Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.
That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

(emphasis added)

ocholsteroc · Mar 19, 2011

Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power.
That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

(emphasis added)[/QUOTE]

I hope he sues. Gets rid of this "GFZ" crap. Basicly it makes anyone who lives near a school if you go buy a gun you could be a felon for living 1000 feet from a school. What if you had to shoot in your house for self defence?

Schools should ban all cars on their property.

t33j · Mar 19, 2011

ocholsteroc said:
I hope he sues. Gets rid of this "GFZ" crap. Basicly it makes anyone who lives near a school if you go buy a gun you could be a felon for living 1000 feet from a school. What if you had to shoot in your house for self defence?

See exemption (i)

ocholsteroc · Mar 19, 2011

t33j said:
See exemption (i)

"(i) on private property not part of school grounds;"

This?

Well what if you live directly across the street from a school and you just came home from the gun store and bought a gun? would that be a felon or are you exempted? You had to drive 1000' feet of a school to get home.

t33j · Mar 19, 2011

ocholsteroc said:
"(i) on private property not part of school grounds;"

This?

Well what if you live directly across the street from a school and you just came home from the gun store and bought a gun? would that be a felon or are you exempted? You had to drive 1000' feet of a school to get home.

Well I suppose that is a valid concern. I was thinking about using it inside one's home. It'd be pretty screwed up to get arrested for bringing a newly purchased and cased firearm home from the store/range/whatever.

ocholsteroc · Mar 19, 2011

t33j said:
Well I suppose that is a valid concern. I was thinking about using it inside one's home. It'd be pretty screwed up to get arrested for bringing a newly purchased and cased firearm home from the store/range/whatever.

Yes that is my point, this GFZ crap should be banned. A honest person buying a gun bringing it home, or heading off to the range could be a felon. We need to strike this 1995 act down.

Grapeshot · Mar 19, 2011

There is no state 1000' GFSZ for possession - seems therein lies the confusion.

There is mention of 1000' rule regarding discharge of a firearm in §18.2-280

The two pertainent sections read as follows:

B. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon the buildings and grounds of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in a program or curriculum sponsored by or conducted with permission of a public, private or religious school.

C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-280

Me thinks maybe the magistrate mis-confused the Code of Virginia. :uhoh:

KYGlockster · Mar 19, 2011

this makes no sense, I know in kentucky you have to be on k-12 school property to be charged. If you are on public property, or your own, within a thousand feet of a school, they cant enforce it, only on their property. This arrest could defin. bring a lawsuit if this guy wanted to push the issue. That would be like telling someone just because they live within a 1000' feet of a school, that they cant exercise their const. rights, and that just cant happen,. \You have to be on the schools grounds. In KY, if you are hunting with a longgun, you can cross school property with said weapon as long as its unloaded without a cc license. This sounds like deprivation of rights to me.

oldbanger · Mar 19, 2011

t33j said:
...It'd be pretty screwed up to get arrested for bringing a newly purchased and cased firearm home from the store/range/whatever.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

RussP · Mar 19, 2011

Does anyone know exactly where he was in relation to the school when stopped?

t33j · Mar 19, 2011

RussP said:
Does anyone know exactly where he was in relation to the school when stopped?

The "semi-automatic" gun wasn't carried but strapped.

Says he's charged with possessing a firearm on school property so that probably means state law eh?

*removed because it was previously posted*

user · Mar 20, 2011

MSC 45ACP said:
To be charged with the GFSZA, Does he have to be charged by a FED LEO or just brought before a FED magistrate by a local or state LEO?

Virginia courts are courts of competent jurisdiction within the United States. States generally don't bother with enforcement of federal law because they don't want to have to pay for it, not because they can't.

user · Mar 20, 2011

skidmark said:
Generally speaking, local LEA does not have jurisdiction to enforce federal law, although they can/may detain one and then turn them over to the feds. The reason this can be a cloudy issue is because so many LEAs have so many cooperative agreements and mutual task force memberships with the feds in which they are "authorized" to act on laws at multiple levels.

Unfortunately, unless someone does the legwork to dig out the paperwork we may never know the status of his arrest charge (local, state, or federal violation).

stay safe.

Actually, under the U.S. Constitution, the United States has no law enforcement authority - the police power is exclusively reserved to the states. And that was given effect until J.Edgar Hoover began to chisel away at the Constitution. Until very recently, all law enforcement was local law enforcement. Theoretically, state prosecutors can bring actions for violation of federal offenses in either state or federal courts.

But. back to the original thread, I can't help thinking, "Gee, I'd sure like to get THAT case." It's the perfect opportunity to get that fed statute back in court with a defendant who wasn't, like, selling cocaine to eight-year-olds. I think that, even with the patches applied, it still has nothing to do with interstate commerce, and is void (and therefore unenforceable) because it exceeds the powers of Congress authorized by the Constitution.

Grapeshot · Mar 20, 2011

Deleted by Grapeshot - wrong thread, wrong application.

riverrat10k · Mar 20, 2011

Why did you stop me officer?

Speeding.

But I was going less than the speed limit.

Close enough to charge you. Here's your ticket.

Hope this quote was mangled by the reporter and the police spokesman did not really say something this stupid (and illegal). Hey! He almost broke a law! Arrest him! Schnell!

peter nap · Mar 20, 2011

Shi^....Go home for a few days and the world falls apart. New war, kicked out of CB, man charged for not breaking the law....:uhoh:

I'm going to look at the warrant for this fellow tomorrow right after I talk to the Mgr. at CB.:uhoh::uhoh:

wylde007 · Mar 21, 2011

user said:
And that was given effect until J.Edgar Hoover began to chisel away at the Constitution.

At the risk of opening old wounds (YAH!) Hoover was about sixty years late to that party.

Stafford_1911 · Mar 21, 2011

According to the court records he is not charged under the GFSZ but with an 18.2-308.1 violation. It also appears that he is being held until his hearing.

Here is the case number GC11002216-00. You can search for the case here http://epwsgdp1.courts.state.va.us/gdcourts/captchaVerification.do?landing=landing . I would provide a link directly to the case but can’t seem to make one work.

wylde007 · Mar 21, 2011

If he was not physically UPON school property (even the R/W in front of the school is NOT school property) then this should not only be dismissed, and immediately, but the police department should be sued for false arrest.

This is not a matter of "maybe" he was on school property. They said he was "close" to school property and arrested him because that was "like" being on school property.

Utter bollocks and heads should roll for this injustice.

Chesterfield Man arrested for open carrying NEAR a school

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