Really disturbing..Dave Workmans article WSP asking for info on AR-15 sales

MSG Laigaie · Mar 22, 2011

Complaint department located... See nra

I recieved email from the NRA today addressing this problem and a list of elected officials to respond to. There is a long list of people to register a complaint with.

Sparky508 · Mar 22, 2011

Dear Detective Gundermann,

In reply to your request for information regarding the sales of any AR rifles or lowers, please, get bent.

Thank you for you time.

COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Inappropriate

:cuss:

Have a great day sir.

Gunslinger · Mar 22, 2011

Sparky508 said:
Dear Detective Gundermann,
In reply to your request for information regarding the sales of any AR rifles or lowers, please, get bent.

Thank you for you time. If you have any more questions, please write them down on a piece of paper, and shove them up your ***hole. :cuss:

Have a great day sir.

Simple, but seems to get the point across...

amzbrady · Mar 22, 2011

Wow, Just freaking WOW.

Still cant believe they sent the letter....

gogodawgs · Mar 22, 2011

deanf · Mar 23, 2011

I guess I really don't see what the problem is.

Information is being requested, not demanded. No one is being detained. No one is being threatened. Cooperation is optional.

I don't have a problem with police officers asking questions while investigating crimes, as long as they are acting ethically, morally, and within the law.

jarhead1911A · Mar 23, 2011

sirpuma said:
DOL could only share info on handgun sales. Long guns aren't recorded for the state and receivers aren't recorded unless it is a pistol/revolver receiver/frame (ie a stripped 1911 or J frame.)

I got the letter and was at first going to comply till I read Dave's article and realized that I didn't need to respond to this request from WSP. I don't know everything and the longer I'm in this business the more I learn.

Thats not true ALL AR lowers in there simplest form are recorded and paperwork is done on them as u can take the lower and make it into a handgun..... and its the only part of the weapon that has a serial on it

sudden valley gunner · Mar 23, 2011

I sat in the back of a LEO Car and say all my firearms, listed on the computer including my long arms.....

Sparky508 · Mar 23, 2011

deanf said:
I guess I really don't see what the problem is.

Information is being requested, not demanded. No one is being detained. No one is being threatened. Cooperation is optional.

I don't have a problem with police officers asking questions while investigating crimes, as long as they are acting ethically, morally, and within the law.

Problem is, is that when the WSP is done with this, does it become public record? Why dont we just advertise all of our evil black rifle sales on a 30 minute infomercial 2 times a week.

TWG2A · Mar 23, 2011

A note from an attorney...

Here's a note I received from an Attorney Friend... edited for language.

"Memo to the Washington State Patrol: You want access to those records, go get a subpoena, and we can let a judge decide whether or not I have to give them to you. But until that time, go F*** yourselves, you gun-grabbing, neo-fascist, A**Holes.

Strong letter follows…"

Dave Workman · Mar 23, 2011

Gunslinger said:
Simple, but seems to get the point across...

Yeah, with the one little exception that GUNDERMANN IS A FEMALE!!!

Dave Workman · Mar 23, 2011

Update !!! Update !!!

WA State Patrol issues mea culpa letter over AR-15 flap

The Washington State Patrol has issued a mea culpa letter that acknowledges the agency “clearly caused concern” among Evergreen State firearms dealers over a request that they provide names, addresses and other information about every AR-15 sale since last July 1.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...atrol-issues-mea-culpa-letter-over-ar-15-flap

TWG2A · Mar 23, 2011

Like a child getting caught with his hands in the cookie jar...

Thanks for the update, Dave. This reminds me of a child getting caught stealing cookies. Or to paraphrase nancy piglosi... "If we can't go through the door, we'll go under the fence. If we can't go under the fence, we'll go around the fence. If we can't go around the fence, we'll pole-vault over the fence..."

More of this to follow. It's only going to get worse. The horrid regime in charge can't fully implement their diabolical schemes until they disarm America. We're the only thing getting in their way, and they're not going to just give up. Not now that they're so close to their ultimate coup.

gogodawgs · Mar 23, 2011

deanf said:
I guess I really don't see what the problem is.

Information is being requested, not demanded. No one is being detained. No one is being threatened. Cooperation is optional.

I don't have a problem with police officers asking questions while investigating crimes, as long as they are acting ethically, morally, and within the law.

sudden valley gunner said:
I sat in the back of a LEO Car and say all my firearms, listed on the computer including my long arms.....

The problem is they are doing so under the color of their authority. While cooperation may seem optional, what happens when gun shop A doesn't cooperate and they need WSP help later down the road.

The WSP "requested" this information in an overly broad manner, without consulting the ATF, NRA, SAF or anyone else. What are they going to do with all of that information? What are they required to do with paperwork after they receive it? Give it back, shred it, or maintain it in a file cabinet subject to a records request?

Now follow up with Workman's story today.... they are looking for their own stolen AR and yet couldn't divulge the serial # to look for....seriously?

Do you still not see what the problem is?

Trigger Dr · Mar 23, 2011

During th course of my employment, there were times I needed to track a firearm. I was authorized, as all LEO are, to inquire from a dealer the serial no. and type of firearm possibly involved in a sale, trade or pawn. With a hit on the ser.no, I could then get the name and address of the person involved.
With the level of professionalism held by WSP, Why can't they do the same? Why don't they do the same.

amzbrady · Mar 23, 2011

For some reason, I kinda feel a little less safe knowing the police are losing firearms.

Gunslinger · Mar 23, 2011

deanf said:
I guess I really don't see what the problem is.

Information is being requested, not demanded. No one is being detained. No one is being threatened. Cooperation is optional.

I don't have a problem with police officers asking questions while investigating crimes, as long as they are acting ethically, morally, and within the law.

They are asking to violate your privacy, that's what's wrong with it. They have no right to this information without due process of law. Cooperation starts out as "optional." Once the camel's head is in the tent, it rapidly becomes less so.

amlevin · Mar 23, 2011

Why not take the direct approach rather than the Overbearing Government Agency method

According to WSP Lt. Charles LeBlanc, the agency will now send a letter to all firearms dealers in the state that contains the serial number of the missing rifle, in the event someone tries to sell it or bring it in for other work. In this follow-up letter, the WSP will be “asking for” dealer assistance in finding the missing rifle or the person who took it.

If a letter that asked for information regarding a specific serial number was sent out would the uproar be the same? I think not. Instead someone decided to take the heavy handed approach. Hopefully a "heavy hand" will be applied to some @$$es that went ahead with the original letter.

As a plus, at least they now realize their mistake and are somewhat trying to heal the major wound that was inflicted.

BTW, if any of the Dealers here receive such a letter that includes a Serial Number, would you consider posting it here. Who knows, it's possible that someone reading it may have had the weapon offered to them for sale or (shuddder, shiver, shake) actually bought it. Might be a good idea, if the latter was the case, to get ahead of the problem.

TWG2A · Mar 23, 2011

Why not like pawn shops?

Pawn shops have to compare records with police records for stolen items. Why not for guns? Someone has a gun stolen and it goes into a record showing all stolen firearms. Gun shop buys gun, they check SN against these records....

Just a thought. I'm sure someone will have valid reasons why not, and I'd like to know what you think.

I understand that the global disarmament scheme starts with registration.... but would such a practice as this be benign? Could it, in any way, be harmful to our Second Amendment rights?

deanf · Mar 23, 2011

They have no right to this information without due process of law.

That's wrong. There is no due process requirement for the release of public records. The 4473s, or any other government required paperwork are public records, which should be open to public scrutiny. This includes law enforcement.

It shouldn't matter who holds the records. They are public; the public should have free access.

Really disturbing..Dave Workmans article WSP asking for info on AR-15 sales

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