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Pit Bull encounter? Shoot, don't shoot, draw, don't draw
- Thread starter LaCrosseKevin
- Start date
wrightme
Regular Member
No, that is not what people are saying, and I am sure you are aware.
Size matters. Training matters. Beyond that, they ARE basically all dogs, and will act like dogs, no matter the size or breed.
eye95
Well-known member
Right, so regardless of training, I will shoot any charging pit bull and put any chihuahua through the uprights--because pit bulls are deadly and chihuahuas are annoying.
stainless1911
Banned
lol.
One shot per bark.
One shot per bark.
liberty404
Regular Member
I pepper sprayed a large non-pit-bull dog into it's open mouth and it was effective. The dog changed from threatening from 2 feet away to threatening from 20 feet away. Would have been better if I also had something more powerful than pepper spray, but fortunately that stuff was adequate. Of course the dog had not progressed beyond threatening (to attacking).
In a different incident I was threatened by the largest and most belligerant Doberman I've ever seen in my life. In that incident I had a pistol concealed with my hand on the handle. The owner came out and very quickly showed me that she loved "Satan" (yes, that was the dog's name) absolutely and couldn't imagine that her 'hound of the Baskervilles' ever would hurt anyone. I was very close to drawing and firing, but eventually she gained control of the beast. If I had shot her canine monster, she would have accused me of every form of evil. She demonstrated that she was neither rational nor a fact-oriented person. Some dog owners have less common sense than a parking meter.
In a different incident I was threatened by the largest and most belligerant Doberman I've ever seen in my life. In that incident I had a pistol concealed with my hand on the handle. The owner came out and very quickly showed me that she loved "Satan" (yes, that was the dog's name) absolutely and couldn't imagine that her 'hound of the Baskervilles' ever would hurt anyone. I was very close to drawing and firing, but eventually she gained control of the beast. If I had shot her canine monster, she would have accused me of every form of evil. She demonstrated that she was neither rational nor a fact-oriented person. Some dog owners have less common sense than a parking meter.
I agree with you about the warning shot if it was a human being who was attempting to murder another human, but in the law dogs don't understand that they are going to murder another dog, that is why they are animals. I am an animal lover of course, but in the eyes of the law animals have a lower value than a human life. In my state at least you can't shoot someone if they are stealing your wallet (unless they are going to harm you). If they knock you down and run off with your pocket book, you can't shoot them. If they take your wallet and repeated punch you on the ground over and over then you can of course. My hope was to just scare the dog with the warning shot, and give the area I had determined that a warning shot would do no harm. When the dog turned on me, it is know a different scenario, (the dog is harming me and I fear for my life and limb). "Feared for life and limb under reasonable intepretation" is a broad term, thats why most cases of self defense in this state still go to Grand Jury. If I go into a pet shop and a hamster bites me and I pull out my .45 and shoot the critter, I think I am going to jail and losing my job. If I go to a petco and someone is walking a beagle in there who gets away and starts biting at my leg then yes I can defend myself. To comment on what some other member added about if the dog was a poodle or such. I have a friend who was bit by his mother's poodle. He had 3 operations and can no longer move his thumb on his right hand. That is what lawyers do...a case lost today may be a case won tomorrow with a different client.
stainless1911
Banned
You're almost right. If you shot a hamster with that cannon in your avatar, you would be aquited for lack of evidence. ie. no hamster.:lol:
eye95
Well-known member
My advice proscribing warning shots has nothing to do with whether the assailant is a human or an animal. It is based solely on the reality that using the firearm, even to fire a warning shot, is the use of deadly force. It could be argued that if a warning shot is fired then the person firing the shot was not in imminent danger, eliminating self-defense as an option.
My point is that, if you are going to use a firearm in self-defense, make the threat the direct target of your shot. Deliberately not hitting the threat could put one in a legal quagmire.
Shoot the threat in a way intended to physically stop the threat, or don't shoot.
My point is that, if you are going to use a firearm in self-defense, make the threat the direct target of your shot. Deliberately not hitting the threat could put one in a legal quagmire.
Shoot the threat in a way intended to physically stop the threat, or don't shoot.
stainless1911
Banned
+1
All of this "warning shot" talk reminds me of the ol' verbal warning that some thought mandatory.
Response was: Bang - bang, stop or I'll shoot!
Realistically there may be times that some verbal (warning) commands might be warranted. (You like all of the caveats?) Given the practical opportunity to yell, "Stop - come no further" or "drop the knife" might benefit my defense when the recording was reveled.
Response was: Bang - bang, stop or I'll shoot!
Realistically there may be times that some verbal (warning) commands might be warranted. (You like all of the caveats?) Given the practical opportunity to yell, "Stop - come no further" or "drop the knife" might benefit my defense when the recording was reveled.
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stainless1911
Banned
Or if there were time to talk to the perp, then it could be reasoned that the threat wasnt imminent.
See my post reply bolded/underlined verbiage prior.
Conditions can change in a millisecond.
OldCurlyWolf
Regular Member
that reminds me of the time I hit a quail at less than 10 feet with a 12 gauge.
Feathers everywhere. I thought I wasn't going to find anything but blood and feathers.
It turned out that I led it about 2 inches too far and a little left to get a center hit. It actually only destroyed the head, neck and left wing. The rest of the bird was intact with only a couple of pellets in it.
My cousin said he had NEVER seen anyone get on a bird that fast. It only got to fly about 5 feet.
I hit a Kamakazi dove flying straight at me with the full choke barrel of a double at about the same range. He glided in with wings out stretched, almost to the toe of my boot. Bent over and picked it up....underside from behind the breast and legs gone! No shot in the breast meat.
I was only protecting myself and planned the shot that way.
I was only protecting myself and planned the shot that way.
celticredneck
Regular Member
I did once fire a warning shot near a dog, but the circumstances were much different that most. I was deep in the woods and had just approached my parked 4x4 truck when a large shepherd looking dog came out from behind it and started towards me, head down and growling. He was only about 10 feet away when I fired my 30-06 deer rifle into the ground right between his feet. The muzzle blast at that range was enough to make him turn tail and run. If he hadn't, I'd have just dragged the carcass off int the woods beside the trail and gone home, extremely sorry I'd had to shoot a dog, especially one that was nearly identical to one which I had recently buried near the same location.
utbagpiper
Banned
Sorry, but breed matters in too many other aspects to think it doesn't matter in tendency toward aggression.
Indeed, one reason for the existence of many breeds is specifically for different desirable traits: working with cattle or sheep, sense of sight or smell for tracking or hunting, ease of training for pointing and flushing birds, ease of training a soft jaw for retrieving downed birds, even propensity to hunt and kill rats.
Horses are just all horses, but anyone whose been around them knows how much more skill and work is required to properly work Arabians than American Quarter Horses. Chickens are just chickens. But anyone who has raised them for any time knows that some breeds tend to be naturally more aggressive than others. And I trust we need not discuss the difference between various European strains of honeybees and their African cousins. No, nothing like shown in the movies, but any beekeeper with experience can tell you the immediate difference in aggression.
Indeed, there is a certain bit of self-contradiction from who choose to own pit bulls because they like the breed but who then turn around and say every breed is essentially the same.
I personally suspect that training and socialization, or rather lack thereof, likely plays as large or larger part in aggressive behavior among dog breeds than does breed itself. My personal pet theory, unsupported by any statistical evidence is that because some criminal types tend to be attracted to the macho image of pits while little old ladies tend to be attracted to small breeds, pits are more likely to be raised and trained more aggressive than some other breeds. To this end, I hope my favored, large breed of dogs never catches on with the crackheads, dealers, or other violent types.
I don't believe in overly stereotyping breeds of dogs. I like dogs, Never had a bad experience with one or any size. But to claim that breed makes no significant difference in behavior is at least as unsupportable as those who claim that breed is the only thing that matters.
Charles
Rational and objective POV.
Frankly, in the situation of an impending dog attack... I wouldn't admit to a "warning shot"... Wouldnt' it be more prudent to explain how you feared for your life, fired your weapon and missed, but it was enough to disuade the animal and all was well.
stainless1911
Banned
If you only fired one shot that could work, you could claim a miss. The police will ask witness about the timing and rhythm of the shots. This helps them get a picture of what happened. For example, you fire a single warning shot and the dog/human runs away; you fired a "warning shot", but claimed that you missed. You'll probably be fine. But if it doesnt work and you have to fire again a minute later, your credibility starts to fall apart.
Think about it this way, someone comes into your house with a bat, you shoot a volley of 4 quick shots, pop pop pop pop, (a justifiable shoot), then you carefully approach the criminal and fire again because he reached for something. The police come, and you say you fired 5 shots in self defense, which you have, and you dont want to say anything else. The police asked your neighbors what they heard or saw, they heard 4 quick shots, then a long pause, and then another single shot. Now the cop thinks that your first 4 shots were justified, but in a moment of macho, you walked up to the guy and finished him with the last one.
If you have to shoot, shoot to stop until the threat stops.
Think about it this way, someone comes into your house with a bat, you shoot a volley of 4 quick shots, pop pop pop pop, (a justifiable shoot), then you carefully approach the criminal and fire again because he reached for something. The police come, and you say you fired 5 shots in self defense, which you have, and you dont want to say anything else. The police asked your neighbors what they heard or saw, they heard 4 quick shots, then a long pause, and then another single shot. Now the cop thinks that your first 4 shots were justified, but in a moment of macho, you walked up to the guy and finished him with the last one.
If you have to shoot, shoot to stop until the threat stops.
stuckinchico
Regular Member
BS ive worked bullies in search and rescue . They have a high drive and they are a working dog.
Majority of dog bite are from them dang ankle biting dogs not bullies. If you never owned one please dont spout off with your bs.
You are acting like the brady bunch to dogs