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Thread: Getting Kicked Out? (or asked to leave)

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Getting Kicked Out? (or asked to leave)

    How often are you asked to leave or disarm somewhere you are open carrying, by a manager, owner, or someone of actual authority for the given property you are patronizing?


    I don't mean the wal-mart mwag bs, but actually going to a restaurant, a roller rink, a mall, a local shop, a gas station, etc. Any small to medium sized businesses, whatever else you can think of, or whoever else's private property you end up on throughout your day(s).


    Business owners and managers in charge of businesses on private property are fully within their rights to ask you to leave or to disarm, I respect those rights. Because of this I tend to lean more toward concealing (yes, I have my CPL) my weapon. I am hoping for some positive yet honest responses to educate me and hopefully persuade me to feel more comfortable about not getting asked to leave while openly carrying in these types of places.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    As I posted on MGO it hasn't happened yet and I've OCed all over Battle Creek and Kalamazoo.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Yeah, I saw. Thank you! I suppose it's probably the same people on both forums' OC topic but figured was worth it if I get more positive responses like yours.

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    Never !

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    hasent happend yet

  6. #6
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    +1 for never.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  7. #7
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGKzoo View Post
    How often are you asked to leave or disarm somewhere you are open carrying, by a manager, owner, or someone of actual authority for the given property you are patronizing?
    Rarely.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  8. #8
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    Twice

    Once from a bar in Standale, once from Mercy Hospital in Muskegon.

  9. #9
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    Occasionally. Can't remember all of them, but once at the mall, but the security wouldnt tell me which store not to go into anymore. Oh, and then there was my own home. And you still cant carry at Waterford schools.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    It happened once in the 9 months I have OC'd -- Lansing Mall/Security Guard.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Go ahead Q.....
    Tell them it was because...I... was there and they didn't like the HAT!
    Last edited by WARCHILD; 03-20-2011 at 01:12 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    Go ahead Q.....
    Tell them it was because...I... was there and they didn't like the HAT!
    Yes, Warchild's hat drew the second looks that got the guards to notice our sidearms.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    It's only happened to me a handful of times. If you OC enough it will happen, and it will happen again, at least in the more urban, leftist voting areas. But as DanM said, it's rare. Consider it a pleasant surprise marking an important milestone when it finally happens to you.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    It happened once in the 9 months I have OC'd -- Lansing Mall/Security Guard.
    forgetting when we went to taco bell too.

    HOWEVER,after a talk with taco bell corporate,it was discovered that taco bell follows state law,and that the employee whom asked us to leave was in the wrong,and we've been back there at least a dozen times since with no issue.

    and i think thats what a majority of the "getting asked to leave" instances involving a resturaunt are,an employee going against corporate policy,either by accident(since they cant carry,assuming that patrons cant either) or on purpose.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Cool, thanks for sharing your experiences. I feel more comfortable with OC now.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911
    Oh, and then there was my own home.
    There's a story there... share, please?
    [where's the popcorn icon?]

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    I live in a trailer park. The park manager says Im not allowed to OC in tha park, on my rented lot, or inside my own home. The trailer is paid for, and I believe I have the right to carry on my lot.

  18. #18
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911
    The park manager says Im not allowed to OC in tha park, on my rented lot, or inside my own home.
    What does your rental agreement say? If there's nothing anti-gun, then no worries.

    If there's something anti-gun in the agreement, it might or might not be enforceable per state landlord-tenant law. I'm not familiar with the law in that regard. It could also run afoul of the findings of the Heller and McDonald decisions.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Only that you agree (under duress) that the rules can change without your consent.

    I believe that cant deny you your first amendment rights, even if they can deny you your second. OC is more first than second.

    Dean told me that as long as I'm following the law, that I had the right to "peaceable enjoyment" if I got that straight. IMO, if they kicked me out, then I should be able to sue for millions, but I couldn't afford the suit, so they'll probably get away with it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    IMO, if they kicked me out, then I should be able to sue for millions, but I couldn't afford the suit, so they'll probably get away with it.
    don't know about millions...civil suits usually revolve around some sort of "real" damage. They may have to pay the expenses you incurred by moving, accept you back, pay legal fees -- but millions -- I think that may be a stretch. If you want millions, you should've spilled coffee on your lap
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  21. #21
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Dean told me that as long as I'm following the law, that I had the right to "peaceable enjoyment" if I got that straight. IMO, if they kicked me out, then I should be able to sue for millions, but I couldn't afford the suit, so they'll probably get away with it.
    Again I'll ask: what does your signed, written rental agreement say? Did I miss you mentioning that elsewhere? They clearly have no legal way to kick you out if you are not violating any of the agreement.

    The written rental agreement is the first hurdle to be considered.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I changed my mind........
    Last edited by Bikenut; 03-21-2011 at 11:04 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Again I'll ask: what does your signed, written rental agreement say?
    Maybe this would trip me up.

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Only that you agree (under duress) that the rules can change without your consent.
    The only reason to ask for millions is to show the value of our rights, our homes, and to send a message to any other apartment or trailer park that would stop this sort of thing from happening to someone else.

    Shouldnt matter if I want to wear a re-legalise weed shirt, one of those Jewish hats, a turban, or the female head coverings that Muslim women wear, they shouldn't be regulating how I dress, protect myself, or express my views.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I am always amazed at how people make totally inane and flippant comments about a subject they have absolutely no knowledge of. Since I have written articles on this subject it might seem I am biased so I will show others who have written on this coffee subject. They left out the less politically correct facts and gruesome details that the woman's vagina was so badly burned it was fused shut and the be surgically opened. This was because as shown in court McDonalds knew that Machine had been recorded and reported to have boiled the coffee at over 220 degrees. Complaints from employees indicated they had cups collapse from the intense heat of the coffee while being filled burning employees. But here is a far less detailed description of the absolute horrors this poor women went through and didn't have to, but McDonalds ignored yearly burns cases of their coffee causing 2nd and 3rd degree burns on 700 people in a ten year period. This may be for a precious few a lesson that before one opens their mouth they might know at least one actual fact of what they speak, and not media hearsay, and hype. I find it instructive how so many people who claim to hate the lies of the media Parrot other lies of the same media they claim to have utter disgust in if that lie serves them. Hypocrisy is the least of their problems, and utter dishonesty may be the more over riding problem at hand. Ones credibility is based on what one says so let your nays be nay and well you all know the rest...

    This is NOT an attack on the person quoted it is in fact an attack on the stupidity hyped by the Media so many people trust. McDonald spent Millions of Dollars on a campaign to ruin this woman who ONLY asked for 100,000.00 to pay her medical expenses and McDonalds refused! I only posted it here as it was mentioned in this post.

    Remember the Media is a BUSINESS who makes money selling Mc Burgers, so who will they side with? The Millions of Dollars made advertising Mc-Stupidity? or will they side with the truth which often looses them millions of Dollars?



    Article below. They forgot to mention her two years of followup surgeries and treatments for this.

    There is a lot of hype about the McDonalds' scalding coffee case. No one is in favor of frivolous cases of outlandish results; however, it is important to understand some points that were not reported in most of the stories about the case. McDonalds coffee was not only hot, it was scalding -- capable of almost instantaneous destruction of skin, flesh and muscle. Here's the whole story.

    Stella Liebeck of Albuquerque, New Mexico, was in the passenger seat of her grandson's car when she was severely burned by McDonalds' coffee in February 1992. Liebeck, 79 at the time, ordered coffee that was served in a styrofoam cup at the drivethrough window of a local McDonalds.

    After receiving the order, the grandson pulled his car forward and stopped momentarily so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee. (Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often charge that Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in motion when she spilled the coffee; neither is true.) Liebeck placed the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled into her lap.

    The sweatpants Liebeck was wearing absorbed the coffee and held it next to her skin. A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas. She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she underwent skin grafting. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement treatments, sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonalds refused.

    During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of this hazard.

    McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees.

    Further, McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185 degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above, and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns would occur, but testified that McDonalds had no intention of reducing the "holding temperature" of its coffee.

    Plaintiffs' expert, a scholar in thermodynamics applied to human skin burns, testified that liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a full thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds. Other testimony showed that as the temperature decreases toward 155 degrees, the extent of the burn relative to that temperature decreases exponentially. Thus, if Liebeck's spill had involved coffee at 155 degrees, the liquid would have cooled and given her time to avoid a serious burn.

    McDonalds asserted that customers buy coffee on their way to work or home, intending to consume it there. However, the companys own research showed that customers intend to consume the coffee immediately while driving.

    McDonalds also argued that consumers know coffee is hot and that its customers want it that way. The company admitted its customers were unaware that they could suffer thirddegree burns from the coffee and that a statement on the side of the cup was not a "warning" but a "reminder" since the location of the writing would not warn customers of the hazard.

    The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages. This amount was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found Liebeck 20 percent at fault in the spill. The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages, which equals about two days of McDonalds' coffee sales.

    Post-verdict investigation found that the temperature of coffee at the local Albuquerque McDonalds had dropped to 158 degrees fahrenheit.

    The trial court subsequently reduced the punitive award to $480,000 -- or three times compensatory damages -- even though the judge called McDonalds' conduct reckless, callous and willful.

    No one will ever know the final ending to this case.

    The parties eventually entered into a secret settlement which has never been revealed to the public, despite the fact that this was a public case, litigated in public and subjected to extensive media reporting. Such secret settlements, after public trials, should not be condoned.
    -----
    excerpted from ATLA fact sheet. © 1995, 1996 by Consumer Attorneys of California

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    Brought to you by - The 'Lectric Law Library
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    http://www.longislandlawyerblog.com/...orm-discussion


    Want to see a 3rd degree burn, see below. Remember McDonalds admitted in court that her coffee was UNFIT for Human consumption... Well DUH!

    http://www.mcmahanlawfirm.com/www/docs/103.41/ <WARNING this is Graphic.





    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    don't know about millions...civil suits usually revolve around some sort of "real" damage. They may have to pay the expenses you incurred by moving, accept you back, pay legal fees -- but millions -- I think that may be a stretch. If you want millions, you should've spilled coffee on your lap
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 03-22-2011 at 12:21 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    What does your rental agreement say? If there's nothing anti-gun, then no worries.

    If there's something anti-gun in the agreement, it might or might not be enforceable per state landlord-tenant law. I'm not familiar with the law in that regard. It could also run afoul of the findings of the Heller and McDonald decisions.

    we all barked around that tree and others including writing several Michigan government agencies handling renting of mobile home in parks. as far as I recall the basis is that the park can set "safety rules" that are for the peaceful existence and for the safety of all residents that are not in the your lease/rental agreement basically because it's private land. in my agreement when i lived in a park it stated I had to abide by all park rules at the time of the signing of the lease and any rules added after i signed the lease, i believe this may be standard in mobile home parks but i have only lived in one

    I don't remember if 1911 talked directly to his park manager or not.......

    basically he is stuck at this point without suing the mgt company
    Last edited by Onnie; 03-24-2011 at 08:39 PM.
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