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Thread: AR Pistol and other SBR in CA?

  1. #1
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    AR Pistol and other SBR in CA?

    I saw a AR pistol like this today at a gun store.





    It is being sold as a pistol! must be 21.



    It is exempt from the drop safety testing because of PC 12133(b).

    12133.
    (b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
    single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches
    and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the
    handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

    Now this got me thinking.

    Why can't I use the same rules to build myself a ruger charger?





    It would have a fixed mag of no more then ten rounds.
    Have a barrel not less then six inches and longer then 10 1/2 overall.

    i started to research this subject and am seeing some issues that I may have to resolve.

    Thats why im here!

    Look at this PC



    12001. (a) (1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol,"
    "revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person"
    shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a
    weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any
    explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less
    than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that
    has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be
    interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

    (2) As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol,"
    "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."

    (f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun,"
    "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the
    person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a
    short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.

    Ok so based on PC 12001 (f) what keeps the LEGAL AR pistol from being an SBR (short-barreled rifle)?

    If you say its because the AR pistol is registered as a pistol and not a rifle look here.

    From http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php

    How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?
    There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers.* However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own.* Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen.* With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.

    12001.
    (n) As used in this chapter, a "personal handgun importer" means
    an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
    (1) He or she is not a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
    (2) He or she is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant
    to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United
    States Code.
    (3) He or she is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to
    Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United
    States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
    (4) He or she is the owner of a handgun.
    (5) He or she acquired that handgun outside of California.
    (6) He or she moves into this state on or after January 1, 1998,
    as a resident of this state.
    (7) He or she intends to possess that handgun within this state on
    or after January 1, 1998.
    (8) The handgun was not delivered to him or her by a person
    licensed pursuant to Section 12071 who delivered that firearm
    following the procedures set forth in Section 12071 and subdivision
    (c) of Section 12072.
    (9) He or she, while a resident of this state, had not previously
    reported his or her ownership of that handgun to the Department of
    Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included
    information concerning him or her and a description of the firearm.
    (10) The handgun is not a firearm that is prohibited by
    subdivision (a) of Section 12020.
    (11) The handgun is not an assault weapon, as defined in Section
    12276 or 12276.1.
    (12) The handgun is not a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
    (13) The person is 18 years of age or older.


    Based on (5) I am not a "personal handgun importer". This means it does not have to be reported.

    And If I did want to report it I could just fill out a form and pay 19 bucks.
    SEE




    AND



    Last i looked at the Assault Weapons Identification Guide
    as listed or described in Penal Code Sections 12276, 12276.1, and 12276.5



    From http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

    Generic Characteristics Defining Assault Weapons:
    12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Penal Code section 12276, “assault weapon” shall also mean the following:
    Rifles
    (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
    (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
    (E) A flash suppressor.
    (F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10
    rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
    Note: Bayonets and bayonet lugs are not assault weapon characteristics under California law.

    Pistols
    (4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the fol- lowing:
    (A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer. (B) A second handgrip. (C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
    fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel. (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
    (5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.


    Based on the gun I would build having a FIXED mag it would NOT fall under either definition of an Assault Weapon.


    What do you think? See anything that I have missed? If you do please post what you think WITH the info to back it up!

    I will post anything else I find relating to this.

    Thanks!!



    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...97#post6041897
    Last edited by ryanburbridge; 03-20-2011 at 06:08 PM.
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

  2. #2
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Don't confuse SBRs with Pistols - legally they are night and day different animals.

    Personally, I think CalGuns is the place for this discussion - it's all already hashed out there anyway.

    Ultimately what you are wanting todo is build something yourself from a 'DROSed virgin receiver' which has NEVER been a rifle; though you will have to DROS it as a 'long gun' because its not a complete firearm yet. Be sure that the paperwork is clearly documented on the 4473 that its a bare receiver. Also make sure that the FFL can document it is straight from the manufacturer without having ever been 'made into a rifle'.

    Alternatively find a place to buy what you want as a 'dimensionally compliant single shot pistol' FYI this is already how some people are bringing off-roster firearms into CA.

  3. #3
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    There are Ruger chargers here in CA.

    The gun cannot start life out as a rifle.

    You could make your own receiver and go from there. Nodak spud has virgin receivers as well. Get a BB and you are good to go.

  4. #4
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Wierd, why has this been moved to the general discussion forum? This is a very CA specific topic due to the intracasies of CA firearms laws...

  5. #5
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    Wierd, why has this been moved to the general discussion forum? This is a very CA specific topic due to the intracasies of CA firearms laws...
    Well that's what I get. I should have said something about UOCing a an AR pistol. lol


    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

  6. #6
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    AR Open carry

    I have an AR pistol. I won't be UOC'ing it, for lack of a holster, and I think it would make people want to call law enforcement, versus going to their local gun shop. People copycat a lot, hard to say. See somebody else driving down the street with the wrong color head lights and think it is legal or at least "where can I get those".

    I know holsters conceal part of the firearm, thus the exemption in the concealment.
    Would a pistol on a "sling" be considered concealed cause no part of the firearm is concealed? I like the holster look and feel versus a sling anyway. I dislike being able to drop or be choked by a sling anyway.

  7. #7
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incvoid View Post
    I have an AR pistol. I won't be UOC'ing it, for lack of a holster, and I think it would make people want to call law enforcement, versus going to their local gun shop. People copycat a lot, hard to say. See somebody else driving down the street with the wrong color head lights and think it is legal or at least "where can I get those".

    I know holsters conceal part of the firearm, thus the exemption in the concealment.
    Would a pistol on a "sling" be considered concealed cause no part of the firearm is concealed? I like the holster look and feel versus a sling anyway. I dislike being able to drop or be choked by a sling anyway.
    Have one in Ca? Did you buy it complete or build it yourself. Fixed mag?


    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto
    "If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

    James Taranto

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