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Thread: Great article on pistol bullet stopping power

  1. #1
    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Great article on pistol bullet stopping power

    http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunitio...11//index.html

    SNIP:
    What does it all mean? Ammunition that fails to stop an adversary is usually due to poor shot placement and not poor ammo performance. Expansion is a means to an end--not the end result. You're better off with a bullet that failed to expand but hit a vital organ than with a fully expanded bullet that did not hit anything important.

    Remember, in order to be effective, handgun bullets must strike a vital location, and no amount of expansion or bullet diameter will change this. The best thing anyone can do to ensure his or her ammo incapacitates a dangerous attacker is to train hard to hit vital areas of the body while bobbing, moving and weaving as would happen in a real fight. This means training time and ammunition, and no super-duper, thermonuclear +P+, thunder-flash, wonder hollowpoint will make up for this.

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    stopping power

    Stopping power has always been controversial. The following link is a report prepaired by the FBI on the subject that some may find interesting.

    http://www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html

  3. #3
    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Agencies all over the world have been looking for
    clear definitive bottom line answer.

    I hope they never get one.

    Because,the very second there is one...Some
    low life politician will want to outlaw it from us citizens using it.

    LR Yote
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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote 312 View Post
    Agencies all over the world have been looking for
    clear definitive bottom line answer.

    I hope they never get one.

    Because,the very second there is one...Some
    low life politician will want to outlaw it from us citizens using it.

    LR Yote
    +1
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    Just in time

    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote 312 View Post
    Agencies all over the world have been looking for
    clear definitive bottom line answer.

    I hope they never get one.

    Because,the very second there is one...Some
    low life politician will want to outlaw it from us citizens using it.

    LR Yote
    I have that clear definitive bottom-line answer and I was just going to post it when I read the above. So, to prevent any further damage to our rights, I will not let anybody ever know what I know now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    I have that clear definitive bottom-line answer and I was just going to post it when I read the above. So, to prevent any further damage to our rights, I will not let anybody ever know what I know now.
    Yes, but now we know you know. And, you know we know you know. So, you're half convicted, you know.

    All that remains is to establish when you knew it.



    PS: Wait, we already know. He knew it when he made the post!
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-22-2011 at 11:56 PM.

  7. #7
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    a good article, and good pic. i beleive i shall infringe on this pic for awhile, and make use of it.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Vandil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anmut View Post
    bullets must strike a vital location, and no amount of expansion or bullet diameter will change this.


    Or will it?

  9. #9
    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandil View Post


    Or will it?
    Hahah - I wonder what the twist rate on that baby is?

  10. #10
    Regular Member Vandil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anmut View Post
    Hahah - I wonder what the twist rate on that baby is?
    USS Wisconsin by the way BB-64 with 6 battle stars.

    Bore Length 800 in (20.32 m)
    Rifling Length 682.9 in (17.35 m)
    Grooves (96) 0.150 in deep (3.81 mm)
    Lands N/A
    Twist Uniform RH 1 in 25

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    Effective range about 20 miles with 16" Mark 7 guns, Max range about 25 miles.

    The Mark 7 fired a projectile weighing about 1 ton.

    Obviously, the picture show that the guns were openly carried.
    Last edited by phred; 03-23-2011 at 05:42 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Effective range about 20 miles with 16" Mark 7 guns, Max range about 25 miles.

    The Mark 7 fired a projectile weighing about 1 ton.

    Obviously, the picture show that the guns were openly carried.
    I want one!!!! .... Umm, Better make that 2 of them.

    The first might overheat.

    LR Yote
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    Watch your words; they become actions.
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    Eat your heart out Yote, here are nine of them


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/5...ber_Mark_7_gun
    Last edited by phred; 03-23-2011 at 06:14 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Eat your heart out Yote, here are nine of them


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/5...ber_Mark_7_gun
    Gotta love how the entire ship moves over when the guns are fired!
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    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Eat your heart out Yote, here are nine of them
    Ahhh...A thing of Beauty to be sure.
    Big Ear to Ear grin.
    My little heart is goin thumpity thump!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Gotta love how the entire ship moves over when the guns are fired!
    That topic comes up once or twice a year on The Hide.
    Some of the guys that served on the Mighty Mo claimed it dont.
    They claim the displacement or draft of the keel prevents that from happening.

    They are also saying the water that makes it look like the ship is moving is
    actually the water being pushed back into the ship from the air that was displaced
    as the projectile moves outward away from the ship.

    When the (huge) projectile moves thru the air it leaves a void on the backside.
    Air rushes back in to to fill the void and drags the water with it and makes it appear as the ship is moving.

    I poked around for 15 mins or so looking for the thread over there but wasnt able to find it.

    They also mention on one of the other battleships how when a certain # gun is fired...it tosses the water from the (Officers?) head.

    LR Yote
    *NOTE: No Longer under the tyranny of Milwaukee County.


    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Obviously, the picture show that the guns were openly carried.
    Actually LOL'd on that one.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Stopping power has always been controversial. The following link is a report prepaired by the FBI on the subject that some may find interesting.

    http://www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html

    Very interesting article on Terminal Ballistics from a different perspective:

    http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20B...a%20morgue.htm

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Very interesting article on Terminal Ballistics from a different perspective:

    http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20B...a%20morgue.htm

    D+mned good read !!!!

    I agree with that guy and I aint done readin it yet

    Ballistic Gel Research
    http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx

    Each PDF has alot of info....
    Some are clothing,barrier, 9mil .45 and .223...
    Ya gotta look thru them to see whats what.

    Theres vids too.

    LR Yote
    *NOTE: No Longer under the tyranny of Milwaukee County.


    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    - Frank Outlaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote 312 View Post
    D+mned good read !!!!

    I agree with that guy and I aint done readin it yet
    I'm in the same boat. It is now in my files - all 47 pages of it. Kind of reminds me of the Taylor Knock-Out Formula/ Theory.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Very good read, although my federal 115g +p Hollow points will do the job , 2 to the chest, 1 to the head.
    but I will pick up a box of those 124 g +p Hollow Points in the near future.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Very interesting article on Terminal Ballistics from a different perspective:

    http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20B...a%20morgue.htm
    I have seen that article posted of several other board before and have always wondered about the source of it. It always seem a little scarce of the true author of it. The other thing about it is the number of autopsies claimed (8.4 per day/365 days a year). That sure seems like a lot of autopsies for one person to see even if it means just reading the reports for that many. He makes some good points but I would like to know a little more about the source before I take it as gospel.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    I have seen that article posted of several other board before and have always wondered about the source of it. It always seem a little scarce of the true author of it. The other thing about it is the number of autopsies claimed (8.4 per day/365 days a year). That sure seems like a lot of autopsies for one person to see even if it means just reading the reports for that many. He makes some good points but I would like to know a little more about the source before I take it as gospel.
    Search begins here:

    Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue

    Comments by Deadmeat2 (and a few others) found on the SW Forum
    Archived on Mouseguns.com July 13, 2006
    Original Post is Here

    Also look at the following, my pdf reader is acting up so I can't - it might be the same.
    Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue Schulman
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    Effective range about 20 miles with 16" Mark 7 guns, Max range about 25 miles.

    The Mark 7 fired a projectile weighing about 1 ton.

    Obviously, the picture show that the guns were openly carried.

    That works out to a 14 MILLION grain projectile by my estimate.

    I thought the caption on that picture should be "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!"
    A. Gold

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    I bet the ballistic coefficient for the projectile is phenomenally high.

  25. #25
    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred View Post
    I bet the ballistic coefficient for the projectile is phenomenally high.
    IIRC it has a bc of 14


    LR Yote
    Last edited by LR Yote 312; 03-24-2011 at 11:51 PM.
    *NOTE: No Longer under the tyranny of Milwaukee County.


    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    - Frank Outlaw

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