ixtow
Founder's Club Member
I posted some of this in the OC Questions thread, but wanted to bring it up here in a pending Florida Specific post.
Cop: "Hey buddy I need to talk to you."
You: "Sure, what about?"
Cop: "You have a gun!"
You: "That's not a crime."
Cop: "[insert excuses here]"
You: "Do you want to talk about a crime you are investigating?"
Cop: "[some crap about having a gun being a reason]"
You: "Why am I being detained?"
Cop: "You have a gun!"
You: "That isn't a crime, Sir/Ma'am."
Cop: "It is if you don't have a permit, give it to me."
You: "What reason do you have to believe that I don't have one?"
Cop: "It says you have to present on demand if you are carrying a Concealed Weapon of Firearm. Not Concealed Weapon or Concealed Firearm. Just Firearm."
You: "Trying to give the law a different meaning, by feigning illiteracy, doesn't seem like something a Judge would support."
I'm a bit concerned about that last part. How likely do you think it is that we will have to litigate this point? It's already case law, in FL no less, that just having a gun is not RAS/PC. It takes very little effort to mis-construe the law as written (this part of 790.06 already exists and would be unedited by SB234/HB517, which is appropriate).
One could try to convince the Cop this is a bad course of action, try to get the cop to admit that he knows it's a dirty game, etc... Wordcrafting is important here. He has no risk, nothing to lose. We could very well end up in jail over it if a cops with a chip on his shoulder decides to try it. Charges likely dismissed, of course, but that is still a big problem.
I'm trying to find the path that results in retaining one's Right to decline Papers Please, without going to jail on false charges from a dirty cop. I'm not seeing it... I'm asking for help on picking the right words to remain non-combative, yet assert our rights. Some will suggest giving in and handing over the papers. I'm aware of this possibility, no need to gum up the thread with it. The capitulators already have their way and we know what it is. Lets not waste time on that.
I'm asking for input on how to NOT do that, from people inclined to respectfully hold them to the letter of the law.
Cop: "Hey buddy I need to talk to you."
You: "Sure, what about?"
Cop: "You have a gun!"
You: "That's not a crime."
Cop: "[insert excuses here]"
You: "Do you want to talk about a crime you are investigating?"
Cop: "[some crap about having a gun being a reason]"
You: "Why am I being detained?"
Cop: "You have a gun!"
You: "That isn't a crime, Sir/Ma'am."
Cop: "It is if you don't have a permit, give it to me."
You: "What reason do you have to believe that I don't have one?"
Cop: "It says you have to present on demand if you are carrying a Concealed Weapon of Firearm. Not Concealed Weapon or Concealed Firearm. Just Firearm."
You: "Trying to give the law a different meaning, by feigning illiteracy, doesn't seem like something a Judge would support."
I'm a bit concerned about that last part. How likely do you think it is that we will have to litigate this point? It's already case law, in FL no less, that just having a gun is not RAS/PC. It takes very little effort to mis-construe the law as written (this part of 790.06 already exists and would be unedited by SB234/HB517, which is appropriate).
One could try to convince the Cop this is a bad course of action, try to get the cop to admit that he knows it's a dirty game, etc... Wordcrafting is important here. He has no risk, nothing to lose. We could very well end up in jail over it if a cops with a chip on his shoulder decides to try it. Charges likely dismissed, of course, but that is still a big problem.
I'm trying to find the path that results in retaining one's Right to decline Papers Please, without going to jail on false charges from a dirty cop. I'm not seeing it... I'm asking for help on picking the right words to remain non-combative, yet assert our rights. Some will suggest giving in and handing over the papers. I'm aware of this possibility, no need to gum up the thread with it. The capitulators already have their way and we know what it is. Lets not waste time on that.
I'm asking for input on how to NOT do that, from people inclined to respectfully hold them to the letter of the law.
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