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Opposition for Texas Open Carry

pooley

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
185
Location
texas
I think SB 31 is the leading contender, right?

It does nothing to prevent charging someone, even an employee, with PC 30.06 if the parking lot is properly posted.

I'm assuming you meant SB 321.

It used the "premises" definition from PC 46.035(f)(3)

""Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
The right referenced in the 2nd Amendment, and Article 1, Section 23 of the Texas Constitution is not subject to any requirement for, or against concealment because neither constitutional provision establishes any such requirement.

The U.S. Supreme Court in its Heller, and McDonald holdings made allowance for infringements such as longstanding prohibitions against possession by felons, and the concealment of arms , but constitutionally no such distinction exists. This reservation allowed for "longstanding prohibitions against" this or that amounts to an outright act of amending the U.S. Constitution by judicial decree. This is why Texas needs to start addressing the right to bear arms independently from the federal constitutional law perspective. This can be accomplished by ENHANCING all rights, including the right to keep and bear arms, rather than following the historic path of infringing upon rights.

The right under federal law (2A), and Texas law (Article 1, Sec. 23) may in fact not be "unlimited", in the sense that its assertion may be subject to some degree of compromise when confronted by other equally protected rights, but no compromise is in order when a protected civil right is confronted by simple sensitivities, preferences, or prejudices which do not constitute protected rights.

The right to BEAR arms BY DEFINITION is the right to carry an object OPENLY, DISPLAYED, and REVEALED notoriously -meaning NOT HIDDEN from observation - as well as CONCEALED at the discretion of the bearer.

The constituted "power of the (Texas) Legislature to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime" can only be logically presumed to apply to acts of the Legislature that are applicable to the wearing of arms BY CRIMINALS since by definition ONLY CRIMINALS commit crimes.

Such logic pursued further, a citizen can only become a CRIMINAL by commiting A CRIME. BEARING ARMS that "are in common use" is NOT A CRIME in and of itself under United States law. Any CRIME relating to the bearing of arms must by definition be defined as a crime separable from the act of bearing such arms.

If the category of arms so borne is otherwise "lawful", and the rights of citizenship of the bearer are fully intact, then the crime would logically have to relate to some activity being engaged in other than the bearing of arms which is a protected right, and by definition cannot be a crime.

In theory this is correct. Unfortunately our constitutions are not respected for THE LAW that they constitute, because we the people allow our representatives, and employees to violate the law every day.
 
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KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
I'm assuming you meant SB 321.

It used the "premises" definition from PC 46.035(f)(3)

""Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."
Yes, but the problem remains: this creates a conflict between two separate laws. It changes the Labor Code to say employers can only prohibit guns from "premises" as defined in Penal Code 46.035(f)(3).

But since they didn't touch the Penal Code, it will remain illegal for anyone with a CHL to possess a concealed handgun on or about their person (which includes in the passenger compartment of a vehicle), in a parking lot that is properly posted with a 30.06 notice, or if any other valid notice has been given in accordance with 30.06.
 

Cowboy_Rick

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
233
Location
, ,
I read this "BLOG" that was mentioned, and all I observed is "COULDA,SHOULDA AND WOULDA". No facts just blurbing. The CHL classes should be much longer for these people along with a few "Criminal Law classes". So sad, these people should be "INFORMED" but surely they are NOT. But I don't remember anyone saying that this would be EASY!!! We should all remember that the treck of 1,000 miles begins with the first step!
Many people have moved into this STATE and most of them are from up NORTH, where the thoughts and lifestyle differs greatly from our own. They do not understand what is faced every day in the sourrounding counties or even communities-just their own, but yet they are emposing their lifestyle upon all of us, which I personally thing is very wrong. This "OPEN CARRY" would, maybe, be very big at first but when the NEW wears off then it would be mostly un-noticeable.
 
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pooley

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
185
Location
texas
Yes, but the problem remains: this creates a conflict between two separate laws. It changes the Labor Code to say employers can only prohibit guns from "premises" as defined in Penal Code 46.035(f)(3).

But since they didn't touch the Penal Code, it will remain illegal for anyone with a CHL to possess a concealed handgun on or about their person (which includes in the passenger compartment of a vehicle), in a parking lot that is properly posted with a 30.06 notice, or if any other valid notice has been given in accordance with 30.06.

I see what you're getting at, but I can't see it as an issue. Whenever two separate laws contradict the newer is the one in effect.

Gov't Code, 312.014

"IRRECONCILABLE AMENDMENTS. (a) If statutes enacted at the same or different sessions of the legislature are irreconcilable, the statute latest in date of enactment prevails."
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
I see what you're getting at, but I can't see it as an issue. Whenever two separate laws contradict the newer is the one in effect.

Gov't Code, 312.014

"IRRECONCILABLE AMENDMENTS. (a) If statutes enacted at the same or different sessions of the legislature are irreconcilable, the statute latest in date of enactment prevails."

I understand that, but the problem is that they don't directly conflict. There are two entirely separate issues, in different chapters of the Codes.

The newer code (if passed) will say that employers can't prohibit employees from having firearms on the "premises" (as defined in PC 46.035).

Previously existing law will still say that anyone with a CHL can't enter or remain on property that is conspicuously posted to the public with a valid PC 30.06 notice, else they will be guilty of criminal trespass by a licensee.

That creates a quandary: the employer can say they're not specifically banning employees from carrying, but anyone entering that parking lot is still subject to their 30.06 notice.

This is yet another of the "cottonisms", where someone who purports to be a great legal mind leaves great gaps that are subject to litigation, while simultaneously condemning other bills.
 
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