Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: ATF Shotgun Study

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,964

    ATF Shotgun Study

    Not advocating Long Gun Open Carry, just ******* in BATFE's Wheaties. Just sent them my thoughts on their shotgun importability study.

    In the study they claim that there is no sporting purpose for grenade launchers. I disagreed with that analysis. Here is what I sent them:

    Comments on The Shotgun Study – BATFE’s Flawed Analysis of Grenade Launchers and Sporting Purposes

    The BATFE analysis for the determination of sporting purposes is flawed because the methodology only considered shooting sports. There are significant sporting purposes for which firearms can be readily adapted that were not considered. The study does not consider the use of firearms associated with sports in general.

    TheGun Control Act of 1968 is clear in that the exception is for firearms that are readily adaptable for sporting purposes and not just those that are readily adaptable for shooting sport purposes.

    A clear example of this gross deficiency in the study is the sporting use of grenade launcher mounts. These mounts are used by many, including disabled military veterans, for golfing purposes. There are readily available mechanical kits that convert a firearm’s grenade launching capability into a golf ball launching capability.

    The Bloom Golf Ball Launcher allows for modified golf tournaments where driving is replaced by launching. This is important to many disabled veterans because they possess the capability to putt, but not the strength or coordination to drive a golf ball.
    Firearms with grenade launcher mounts are readily adaptable to launching golf balls. The Bloom kit requires only the tightening of three set screws to install the golf ball launcher over the grenade launcher.

    The BATFE is aware of the existence of the Bloom Golf Ball Launcher as a recreational device and has, in the past examined this device. On May 11, 2005 the BATFE Firearms Technology Branch rendered an opinion that the device, when attached to a firearm was a recreational device and not a weapon.

    The assertion in the report that grenade launchers are not used for sporting purposes is therefore not factually correct, and is quite disturbing when there is clear and convincing evidence that the BATFE Firearms Technology Branch has known about the sporting use of Grenade Launchers for at least six years.

    Most of the reasonably priced firearms with grenade launchers are foreign military surplus rifles. Disabled Military Veterans usually live on a paltry disability check from the Veterans Administration. To set a factually incorrect precedent about grenade launchers that would prevent their import and effectively preclude disabled veterans from participating in the sport of golf does not comport with the scope, purpose, intent or meaning of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

    Again, the study’s analysis is fatally flawed because the methodology it uses does not consider legitimate and recognized (even by BATFE) sporting purposes outside of the shooting sports for which firearms may be readily adapted. Grenade launchers are recognized and currently used for sporting purposes. Rifles and shotguns with grenade launchers can be readily adapted to use golf ball launching kits.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Centreville
    Posts
    147
    They can take my golf ball launcher from my cold dead hands!

  3. #3
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    Nice epilogue. Name:  eusa_shifty.gif
Views: 203
Size:  1.2 KB

  4. #4
    Regular Member stuckinchico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Stevenson, Alabama, United States
    Posts
    506

    Sporting purpose for firearms

    Since when does a firearm need a sporting purpose????? Nothing in the Constitution states that firearm needs to have this purpose ATF can go lick the windows of a short bus

  5. #5
    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Spanaway
    Posts
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Not advocating Long Gun Open Carry, just ******* in BATFE's Wheaties. Just sent them my thoughts on their shotgun importability study.

    In the study they claim that there is no sporting purpose for grenade launchers. I disagreed with that analysis. Here is what I sent them:

    Comments on The Shotgun Study – BATFE’s Flawed Analysis of Grenade Launchers and Sporting Purposes

    The BATFE analysis for the determination of sporting purposes is flawed because the methodology only considered shooting sports. There are significant sporting purposes for which firearms can be readily adapted that were not considered. The study does not consider the use of firearms associated with sports in general.

    TheGun Control Act of 1968 is clear in that the exception is for firearms that are readily adaptable for sporting purposes and not just those that are readily adaptable for shooting sport purposes.

    A clear example of this gross deficiency in the study is the sporting use of grenade launcher mounts. These mounts are used by many, including disabled military veterans, for golfing purposes. There are readily available mechanical kits that convert a firearm’s grenade launching capability into a golf ball launching capability.

    The Bloom Golf Ball Launcher allows for modified golf tournaments where driving is replaced by launching. This is important to many disabled veterans because they possess the capability to putt, but not the strength or coordination to drive a golf ball.
    Firearms with grenade launcher mounts are readily adaptable to launching golf balls. The Bloom kit requires only the tightening of three set screws to install the golf ball launcher over the grenade launcher.

    The BATFE is aware of the existence of the Bloom Golf Ball Launcher as a recreational device and has, in the past examined this device. On May 11, 2005 the BATFE Firearms Technology Branch rendered an opinion that the device, when attached to a firearm was a recreational device and not a weapon.

    The assertion in the report that grenade launchers are not used for sporting purposes is therefore not factually correct, and is quite disturbing when there is clear and convincing evidence that the BATFE Firearms Technology Branch has known about the sporting use of Grenade Launchers for at least six years.

    Most of the reasonably priced firearms with grenade launchers are foreign military surplus rifles. Disabled Military Veterans usually live on a paltry disability check from the Veterans Administration. To set a factually incorrect precedent about grenade launchers that would prevent their import and effectively preclude disabled veterans from participating in the sport of golf does not comport with the scope, purpose, intent or meaning of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

    Again, the study’s analysis is fatally flawed because the methodology it uses does not consider legitimate and recognized (even by BATFE) sporting purposes outside of the shooting sports for which firearms may be readily adapted. Grenade launchers are recognized and currently used for sporting purposes. Rifles and shotguns with grenade launchers can be readily adapted to use golf ball launching kits.
    Hmm just a thought but if it launches golf balls its a golf ball launcher. If it launches explosive grenades its a grenade luancher. Based on your statement the BATFE IS correct. I dont care who flames me for saying I am anti 2A or whatever.... People dont need GRENADE launchers. Last thing I need to worry about is BGs getting ahold of grenade launchers and go thumping grenades into the general populace because its more effective then plain old shooting.
    "So there I was between a rock and a hard place, when it hit me... What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    Quote Originally Posted by DevinWKuska View Post
    Hmm just a thought but if it launches golf balls its a golf ball launcher. If it launches explosive grenades its a grenade luancher. Based on your statement the BATFE IS correct. I dont care who flames me for saying I am anti 2A or whatever.... People dont need GRENADE launchers. Last thing I need to worry about is BGs getting ahold of grenade launchers and go thumping grenades into the general populace because its more effective then plain old shooting.
    The grenade launcher was modified to make the golf ball launcher. Without the grenade launcher you wouldn't have the golf ball launcher.

    Also the last thing I need to worry about is the BGs getting a hold of a car and driving it into a place and blowing it up. So I guess we should ban cars. Or what about worrying about BGs getting a hold of a 30 round magazine and going on a kiling rampage. Guess we should ban 11+ round magazines. Or hell just go for broke and ban guns since BGs getting a hold of those allows them to commit a ton of crimes!

  7. #7
    Regular Member DevinWKuska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Spanaway
    Posts
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    The grenade launcher was modified to make the golf ball launcher. Without the grenade launcher you wouldn't have the golf ball launcher.

    Also the last thing I need to worry about is the BGs getting a hold of a car and driving it into a place and blowing it up. So I guess we should ban cars. Or what about worrying about BGs getting a hold of a 30 round magazine and going on a kiling rampage. Guess we should ban 11+ round magazines. Or hell just go for broke and ban guns since BGs getting a hold of those allows them to commit a ton of crimes!
    Your statement is negated by reality. If golf ball launchers were something people were interested in someone would make them. Banning cars is ridiculous as the vast majority of cars sold arent originally and currently intended to be used for violence. Banning guns or magazines is moot as well as you OC or have a gun to defend yourself in case a BG goes on a shooting spree. Having a fight between you and a BG with grenade launchers is FAR more likely to end in dozens wounded or killed then say your HG.

    This golf ball launcher thing is nothing new. You can by Harrier jump jets... but they have had their weapons systems and mounting taken off. Thus they are no longer fighter jets.. they are personally owned jet airplanes. Arguing we should make grenade launchers legal for a few folks in wheelchairs is dicey at best. You would have a much better chance at getting Obama to enact a law allowing OC nationwide. But that is IMO no facts or links to support.

    In regards to 10+ rnd magazines.. that is a valid issue. After teh AZ shooting(I am sure anti-2A have a list of others as well) there are many law makers discussing whether hi-cap magazines are really necessary. So that concern is something that we can actually find proof of action on. Personally when I go to the range to shoot my long-guns reloading ever 10shots would be frustrating. HG wise though... I think if 10 shots doesnt help me... neither wiill 30
    Last edited by DevinWKuska; 04-03-2011 at 01:02 AM. Reason: reduce posting
    "So there I was between a rock and a hard place, when it hit me... What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

  8. #8
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828
    Quote Originally Posted by DevinWKuska View Post
    SNIP...

    In regards to 10+ rnd magazines.. that is a valid issue. After teh AZ shooting(I am sure anti-2A have a list of others as well) there are many law makers discussing whether hi-cap magazines are really necessary. So that concern is something that we can actually find proof of action on. Personally when I go to the range to shoot my long-guns reloading ever 10shots would be frustrating. HG wise though... I think if 10 shots doesnt help me... neither wiill 30
    For the reasons set forth in the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, Amendment 2--- I have EVERY NEED and RIGHT to KEEP, OWN, POSSESSES, ACQUIRE, USE, UTILIZE any and every ARM used by the government as long as I can afford the purchase of it. Self Defense is the reason. That is Self Defense from anyone and anything (government) that seeks to abrogate my rights without DUE PROCESS--- that is another of the promised BENEFITS/RIGHTS included in the BILL of RIGHTS.

    Yep, legislation has been passed at both State and Federal levels making the purchase, acquisition, possession of certain types of arms ILLEGAL, NO ONE HAS YET REPEALED THE 2nd Amendment so those laws, rules, regulations are in fact null and void on their face.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran Cavalryman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by DevinWKuska View Post
    Hmm just a thought but if it launches golf balls its a golf ball launcher. If it launches explosive grenades its a grenade luancher. Based on your statement the BATFE IS correct. I dont care who flames me for saying I am anti 2A or whatever.... People dont need GRENADE launchers. Last thing I need to worry about is BGs getting ahold of grenade launchers and go thumping grenades into the general populace because its more effective then plain old shooting.
    A grenade launcher is totally worthless without the appropriate grenade and those are already outlawed separately from the launching device.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •