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Bad Open Carry Police Encounter

Motofixxer

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
965
Location
Somewhere over the Rainbow
I think a better option is to choose not to answer certain questions. And answer as minimal as possible. Stating you want to remain silent, then speaking creates a lot of ambiguity in your intentions. So if you say you wanna remain silent, SHUT UP. You ALWAYS have the option to remain silent, and to not answer any specific question. Whether you're advised of it or not. But it may not be in your best interest to remain silent. In the legal arena, if you are silent when things are being said of you, you can get yourself in a more complicated situation by remaining silent. In some situations you need to deny accusations and defend yourself, if you already stated you wanna remain silent, you shouldn't be stating anything.
 

Zeus

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
194
Location
Neenah
Assclown doesn't even begin to describe this cop. I won't be going to Philly anytime soon. I put it next on the list to Chicago.
 

1FASTC4

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
505
Location
Tomahawk
You know, this reminds me of a gung ho, trash everyone's rights cop in my area. I finally had the chance to meet him, and from what I hear he is not very well liked by fellow law enforcement, but nobody seems to want to do anything about it.

Thats all I have to say about that.

Geez.. hope I never meet him.
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
This is just flat out unacceptable. Even if it was illegal for him to OC there, the officer shouldn't be taking that as a threat. If he wants to investigate the situation and ask questions, fine, he has every right to be suspicious. But how can the officer go from "investigation and citation" to "GUN THAT MUTHER DOWN!!!".

how can the officer go from "investigation and citation" to "GUN THAT MUTHER DOWN!!!".

Because Police Officers ( local, state & Federal ), are in all actuality ...A sitting judge, a Jury of 12 & a Executioner all rolled up into a trigger happy, paranoid, imperfect human being that has been given Ultimate powers of life and death over other Imperfect human beings that NO ONE MAN should be allowed to wield over another Human being...Yet they are allowed to kill at will & are authorized to do so with virtual impunity & immunity from virtually all prosecution...They are in fact imperfect man made Gods or Human Angels of Death, that can snuff your life out when ever it pleases them & all they have to do is "claim" they gave you a lawful order to do( what ever) ( he resisted) ( we felt threatened) ( It "appeared" he was going for a gun ) & your DEAD. & they are on desk duty for 72 hours..... This is COLD HARD FACT ! Frightening HUH !!

The Ultimate powers of the Police in this country, need badly to be reigned in......
 
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jdholmes

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
488
Location
Henderson, Nevada
I can't believe how aggressive these coppers were. The language being used was totally uncalled for in the situation.

Notice how he cools his tone after they start actually investigating, I think he knew what he was looking like and was a little ashamed...but that's just my view...seemed like he backtracked a little.

Only thing I'm wondering is why we read about these things and see all the comments on youtube but I can't find anywhere that the guy states the legal action he has taken or what has happened since...

If this kind of thing happened to me I would not drop it and I would have it in the ears of any media that would listen.
 

Rick H

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
323
Location
Hoover, Alabama
I believe that Pennsylvania is a concealed only state. (Handgunlaw.us) states a pennsylvania permit is issued to carry concealed.

This guy was wrong. But the LEO was wrong with the way he handled it also.

JMHO

JJC

You are very incorrect. Pennsylvania is a traditional open carry state. There are 2 issues that prevent it from being a "Gold Star" open carry state. First, you must have a permit to open carry in the city of Philadelphia and second, you must have a permit to open carry in a vehicle. However, PA recognizes the permits of all 50 states for open/concealed carry in vehicles.
 

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
On the side of the road, looking down the barrel of a loaded gun is NOT the time to assert your rights. Live to fight another day.

Live to fight another day, and be a lemming sitting their with your rights violated? I respectfully disagree, because if you do not vigorously defend your rights, they will get trampled! And courts have ruled that if you do not actively defend your rights, you are actually waiving them.

What would you consider a woman who does not fight against forcible rape? Should she just submit and go after the rapist at a later date? If that were the case, she had basically allowed herself to be violated.

I fight for my rights to not be violated, there is even case-law stating that if you do not fight tooth and nail to defend your rights, you are considered to be voluntarily waiving said rights. (anyone got the link to that ruling?)
 

keepyourreceipt

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
42
Location
Mequon, WI
The thing that I find striking is that this guy, while he is being maybe a little difficult especially for being at gunpoint, is very polite and professional--way more than the cops. He maintains a calm voice, and is saying "may I do this?" and referring to them as "gentlemen" and "officers", and even sites the specific code allowing him to open carry. While the officers are yelling at him, calling him vulgar names and swearing at him. Definitely letting their adrenaline get the better of them. At one point you can even hear several cops talking because none of them are even sure if you can open carry, showing clear ignorance of the law. Later they hold him while they actually have to check to see whats legal and whats not. These are the cops that nobody wants to encounter, EVER.

Good job on his part though!
 

Archangel

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
232
Location
OTP, Georgia, USA
You are very incorrect. Pennsylvania is a traditional open carry state. There are 2 issues that prevent it from being a "Gold Star" open carry state. First, you must have a permit to open carry in the city of Philadelphia and second, you must have a permit to open carry in a vehicle. However, PA recognizes the permits of all 50 states for open/concealed carry in vehicles.
From what I have read, Pennysylvania is an open carry state, but Philidelphia is NOT an open carry city. I looked it up right after I saw this post and listened to the audio.

No excuse for what the cop did. To say he handled it badly would be a gross understatement.

I'll be avoiding Philly I guess....
 

Rick H

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
323
Location
Hoover, Alabama
No, I am Correct

From what I have read, Pennysylvania is an open carry state, but Philidelphia is NOT an open carry city. I looked it up right after I saw this post and listened to the audio.

No excuse for what the cop did. To say he handled it badly would be a gross understatement.

I'll be avoiding Philly I guess....

In Pennsylvania a License To Carry Firearms is only required to conceal a firearm, or to carry a firearm in a motor vehicle. The law is silent on the act of openly carrying a firearm while not in a vehicle making it de-facto legal. It must be noted however that due to 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia) a License To Carry Firearms is required to carry a firearm in any manner on the streets or public property of a "City of the first class" (Philadelphia.

Open Carry in Pennsylvania
While Pennsylvania has a specific law that requires a License To Carry Firearms for the concealed carry of a firearm, and the carry of firearms in vehicles, the law is silent on the legality of openly carrying a firearm in other situations, making it de-facto legal.

There is however a law that requires a License To Carry Firearms to carry either way in "cities of the first class", which as defined by law is only the city of Philadelphia.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6108: Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia
No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
(1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
(2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
To summarize, open carry is legal in Pennsylvania without a License To Carry Firearms except in "cities of the first class" (Philadelphia) and vehicles where a License To Carry Firearms is required to do so.

With that said, we would like to point out that there is much debate among firearm owners about whether openly carrying firearms is really a good idea. While we will leave that choice to the individual we will state that in many urban areas (namely Philadelphia) doing so will draw unwanted attention from law enforcement that may include (but not be limited to) the following repercussions:

Being stopped and questioned by law enforcement.
Having your License To Carry Firearms seized and sent back for revocation.
Being arrested either improperly or for other charges like disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance.
While this may not happen should you choose to carry openly, many urban law enforcement officers we have talked to have expressed a very negative opinion towards the idea. Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to.

Now with this all said, Did not the Supreme courts just rule that a locality may not have the right to a law different than that of the state????? uuuuummm I think so.
McDonald v. Chicago
 
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cleveland

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
289
Location
West Allis, WI
At the end of the recording as they were releasing him, the officers told him not to reload it around them. Does he have to comply? What's the use of an unloaded gun?
 

Motofixxer

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
965
Location
Somewhere over the Rainbow
I know a guy that was told not to load it while the officers were there. Well nobody said anything about the slide. Hit the slide release, BAM goes the slide. At least 3 officers all turned around quickly.
 

exceltoexcel

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
88
Location
, ,
Subject of these 4 audio recordings on Utube NEEDS to remain silent ONCE he has invoked this right. He gave entirely too much information.

Reading some of the comments this is NOT the first time this has happened to him but he doesn't seem to do anything except go to internal affairs.

Seems it will continue to happen to him and others this way UNTIL someone successfully gets the attention of the Philadelphia Police Dept.

The situation has been at least partially addressed if not mostly solved.

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-1...lly-oc-rally-activity-thread.html#post1597360
 
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