Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 53

Thread: Florida Open Carry Bill

  1. #1
    Regular Member mach1chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    130

    d

    d
    Last edited by mach1chris; 06-15-2011 at 09:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Hi, welcome to the boards.
    Here are the links to the legislature pages on the pair of related bills for our open carry measure:
    http://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/0234
    http://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/B...7&SessionId=66

    They were filed and are moving through their respective committees separately, but are being amended to remain in line with/identical to one another, so that once both pass their committees they can each be voted on the house and senate floor and get right to the Governor. This way we don't have to wait for each to go through committees in both sides and take twice as long.
    Hopefully we'll see some real action on them by mid-April.
    Cheers

  3. #3
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Cheers is right, im a state trooper I already open carry but these bills will def get my brother off my back about when he can openly carry hahaha...

    however I still recommend, and this is for all you guys out there.. when openly carrying a Firearm please carry with respect to others and just beware at all times... There are some guys on the force that will not really care.

    In case a cop or state trooper happenes to ask you why your carrying a firearm please respone in a respectful manner.
    You won't have any problems from me, but I know there are others here itching for a confrontation about their rights; whoever's right, I'm still probably going to suffer for it.

    My answer to that question will always be "For lawful self-defense only, officer. I have my license with me if you'd like to see it."
    I do not want be held up or detained, whether rightfully or not. I'll always be respectful, and don't mind earning the respect I deserve in return as long as you/they are willing to let me earn it. I'm trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, police that they'll learn to accept OC and not give us a hard time after the first few experiences, and my fellow OCers that they won't go out of their way to make this transition any rougher than it needs to be.
    I said elsewhere here, my only law enforcement experiences were the two tickets I've gotten, and being asked about witnessing someone else's car crash. I'll be shaking bad enough when I get stopped for OC, I can't give myself any extra opportunity to screw up what I say then...

  4. #4
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    sounds like you will be fine...what you should do is buy you a ID holder to have around your neck kinda like a badge to hold your permit...

    We have already been in a few meetings about this new bill passing and they have simply asked us if we saw one's openly carrying a firearm, to stop them and ask for there CWP... Law enforcement will learn to live with it after awhile.
    I saw one of the amendments earlier that required it to be clipped on next to the holster; had everyone riled up. I'm not exactly keen on flapping the card around (besides, I'm good at losing things that aren't in my pocket or wallet/gun sized), but I'm planning on keeping it by itself in my farthest-from-the-gun pocket to get out easily if necessary.

    I know there's the whole case law issue that possession of a firearm is not RAS/PC for a stop, but I wish people just won't object and show the dang card a few times a week for the first few months til everyone calms down and it isn't a big deal anymore...
    That said... I'm gonna get crucified for saying this on here, but I'm thinking they should just do this amendment and get it over with. Spare us all the trouble of some OCers refusing the 'papers please' concept:

    It still says "anyone carrying a concealed weapon or firearm must show their CWL on demand from an officer"
    if they just amend it to say "anyone carrying a weapon or firearm must show their CWL on demand from an officer"...
    it'll take away the whole issue of RAS/PC for the stop/demand.
    And probably soften the FSA's objections to the bills.

    I don't personally like that wording better, but I'd be showing my card without objection anyway, and I hope I don't get carded by every officer I meet, but it's better than being detained, rightly or wrongly, and I'm trusting we'll reach the point soon enough that we won't be getting carded all the time.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    In case a cop or state trooper happenes to ask you why your carrying a firearm please respone in a respectful manner.
    "Approach determines response" is one of my favorite cop sayings, but it works both ways.

    "Hi, why are you carrying that pistol openly?"
    - "Well, because it's my preferred way to carry, and it's legal. How about you?"
    "Okay, thanks, just checking."

    - versus -

    "HEY JUNIOR! KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM!"
    - "I am, officer, why are you pointing your gun at me?"
    "SHUT THE F*** UP, GET ON YOUR F***ING KNEES, YOU'RE LUCKY I DIDN'T F***ING SHOOT YOU!"
    (Not an exact transcript, but an accurate summary of a legal open carrier's recent experience with the Philadelphia PD. Complete audio available here.)

    Oh, and thanks for being a trooper who supports OC and gun rights. This forum has the reputation of "cop bashing", but the truth is the only cops who get bashed are those bash citizen's rights.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Palm Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Cheers is right, im a state trooper I already open carry but these bills will def get my brother off my back about when he can openly carry hahaha...

    however I still recommend, and this is for all you guys out there.. when openly carrying a Firearm please carry with respect to others and just beware at all times... There are some guys on the force that will not really care.

    In case a cop or state trooper happenes to ask you why you're carrying a firearm please respone in a respectful manner.
    Why am I carrying a firearm?

    My favorite answer is..."Because I can't fit you in my pocket" : )

    Always gets a laugh.

    A few months back my brother in law and I were stopped (he had a brake light out) and the officer came to the passenger side where I was. Now he kept himself close to the vehicle, which I thought was smart for two reasons. One, he could easily see inside what we were up to and secondly, for all we knew he had already drawn.
    So if we were bad guys he was ready.
    Now he proceeded to ask us if we had any weapons in the vehicle and I told him," Yes, I have a gun."
    He said, "Ok, you don't have to tell me but I appreciate that." He then asked, "Do you mind telling me where it is"?
    I said, "Not at all, it's in the glove box in front of me." He said, "Thanks, I appreciate that."
    He then asked if I had a concealed carry permit, I said, "I do, would you like to see it"? He said, "No, but do you carry all the time"? I said, "Everywhere I go except where it's not permitted." He said, "Good."
    "What about you?" he asks my brother in law. Man...I could feel my brother in law cringe as he had to say, "I don't have a gun yet but I'm getting one soon." He then asked me what kind of gun it was and I said, "It's a Glock 27"
    He says, "Do you like the fourty?" I said, yea it's ok but I want to try a 10mm next, I have a Glock 21 too and by the time I'm done I'll have probably end up with one for every caliber." We then started talking about what ranges I frequented and where he goes and stuff.
    Then he said something which left us sort of stunned, he said, "Listen, we're coming up on some tough times and we have to stick together...carry everywhere you go."
    With that he said, "Have a good day gentleman." and went back to his car. I think it was the things I had been hearing of late but at the time it it just sounded well...ominous, almost as if he were trying to warn us of some upcoming event. Now, I just think of it as good advice.

    I understand as you said that some do not care (I hope there are a lot more that do) but I believe if you're respectful and cooperative there is an immediate trust. Not always, as I've seen cops who take a very commmanding tone, stance and attitude and continue that way despite full cooperation but this I believe is done so that they have full control of a situation which let's face it, the variables of which they do not/cannot know.

    Anywho, welcome to the forum and I hope your brother and the rest of us all hear some good news soon. : )

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Palm Bay, Florida, USA
    Posts
    238
    Hey Chris, did they mention in the meetings if you have to run a check on whoever you card or is showing your permit enough?

    I have no problem showing it but if they are going to call in your vitals every time, the time could start adding up.

  8. #8
    Regular Member protect our rights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    I saw one of the amendments earlier that required it to be clipped on next to the holster; had everyone riled up. I'm not exactly keen on flapping the card around (besides, I'm good at losing things that aren't in my pocket or wallet/gun sized), but I'm planning on keeping it by itself in my farthest-from-the-gun pocket to get out easily if necessary.

    I know there's the whole case law issue that possession of a firearm is not RAS/PC for a stop, but I wish people just won't object and show the dang card a few times a week for the first few months til everyone calms down and it isn't a big deal anymore...
    That said... I'm gonna get crucified for saying this on here, but I'm thinking they should just do this amendment and get it over with. Spare us all the trouble of some OCers refusing the 'papers please' concept:

    It still says "anyone carrying a concealed weapon or firearm must show their CWL on demand from an officer"
    if they just amend it to say "anyone carrying a weapon or firearm must show their CWL on demand from an officer"...
    it'll take away the whole issue of RAS/PC for the stop/demand.
    And probably soften the FSA's objections to the bills.

    I don't personally like that wording better, but I'd be showing my card without objection anyway, and I hope I don't get carded by every officer I meet, but it's better than being detained, rightly or wrongly, and I'm trusting we'll reach the point soon enough that we won't be getting carded all the time.
    people that think this way are the reason LEOs step on our rights at every turn. If I encounter an LEO in Florida and am stopped for merely carrying don't expect me to be giving up ANYTHING that is not required by law. I will be recording and bringing any legal action against them necessary to keep them honest
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" - George Washington

  9. #9
    Regular Member maps761's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    44

    The "ANTI" works both ways

    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    Im so glad Florida is finally getting its open carry law back... Im all for it unlike some of my anti-gun cop friends.
    At the House Judiciary Committee on 3/24, I watched Sheriff Jim Coats of Pinellas County say that every "Man With A Gun" call would be treated "Priority One" with a minimum of two officers responding and they would proceed to "draw down" on the individual who is open carrying. If that indeed becomes the standard response from Law Enforcement, people are going to get hurt and the tax payers are going to be shelling out big bucks from the resulting law suits. I think that kind of talk tops the kind of stuff I see on this board.

    I really hope Coats was just blowing smoke out his ass in an over zealous attempt to defeat this bill. I can only take him at his word until I see it play out.

    Welcome to the group and please stick around. It will be interesting to hear some chatter from the other side of the "thin blue line".
    If this be Treason, then make the most of it. Patrick Henry, May 1765

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by mach1chris View Post
    sounds like you will be fine...what you should do is buy you a ID holder to have around your neck kinda like a badge to hold your permit...

    We have already been in a few meetings about this new bill passing and they have simply asked us if we saw one's openly carrying a firearm, to stop them and ask for there CWP... Law enforcement will learn to live with it after awhile.
    Just because you see a holstered handgun does not give reasonable suspicion that a crime is taking place. Just like just seeing someone driving does not give you the reasonable suspicion needed to pull them over and check their drivers license.

    Contact your department's training division and make sure they get a legal opinion before telling troopers to stop and ID.

    Stop and ID without RS/PC will cause a negative OC story in the press and a lawsuit filed against FHP.

  11. #11
    Regular Member maps761's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    44

    Sheriff Coats

    The archived video from the Judiciary Committee meeting on 3/24 is now available on the House web site at: http://streams.leg.state.fl.us/archi...03_24_8551.asx. It works for me with Internet Explorer 8, but not Firefox.

    At approx. 1 hour 20 minutes into the video, Lt. Rick Hernandez with Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office makes the statement that all "Man With A Gun" calls will be treated as Priority One with a minimum of two officers responding.

    At 1 Hour 51 minutes, Coats starts and at about 1 hour 54 minutes he makes the ridiculous statement that officers will be drawing down on citizens.

    I wish I had a way to capture streaming video. Tonight I'm going to try to record the video from my computer screen and if the quality is any good, I'm going to post it on Youtube.

    In my opinion, since he is the Sheriff and he sets policy for the department, he is conspiring to deny citizen's rights.

    He should be fired.

    Update: I managed to record the parts of the video where Hernandez and Coats speaking. Here's the link to the Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ALgGpTMj8k
    Last edited by maps761; 03-30-2011 at 02:44 PM.
    If this be Treason, then make the most of it. Patrick Henry, May 1765

  12. #12
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by protect our rights View Post
    people that think this way are the reason LEOs step on our rights at every turn. If I encounter an LEO in Florida and am stopped for merely carrying don't expect me to be giving up ANYTHING that is not required by law. I will be recording and bringing any legal action against them necessary to keep them honest
    can't help but feel people who think like you about not giving an inch when we've gained a mile are the ones that are going to cost me my long awaited OC rights.
    "Here's my card... Thank you have a good day."
    Hurts no one, shows respect, goes much further toward earning their respect, let's him/her go deal with criminals instead of me, and gets me back on my merry way.

    I am not a "freedom hating neocon" who believes in "evil ideas of conceding to 'papers please'" I am a normal person who wants to OC and would rather respectfully show my card for 5 seconds and get it over with. If I get stopped every day, I'll call the sheriff's office and discuss my problem.
    Have a good day, and please don't cost me my long awaited rights by causing unneccessary bad news opportunities against OCers.
    Last edited by ~*'Phoenix'*~; 03-26-2011 at 09:22 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by maps761 View Post
    The archived video from the Judiciary Committee meeting on 3/24 is now available on the House web site at: http://streams.leg.state.fl.us/archi...03_24_8551.asx. It works for me with Internet Explorer 8, but not Firefox.

    At approx. 1 hour 20 minutes into the video, Lt. Rick Hernandez with Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office makes the statement that all "Man With A Gun" calls will be treated as Priority One with a minimum of two officers responding.

    At 1 Hour 51 minutes, Coats starts and at about 1 hour 54 minutes he makes the ridiculous statement that officers will be drawing down on citizens.

    I wish I had a way to capture streaming video. Tonight I'm going to try to record the video from my computer screen and if the quality is any good, I'm going to post it on Youtube.

    In my opinion, since he is the Sheriff and he sets policy for the department, he is conspiring to deny citizen's rights.

    He should be fired.
    Yes, the sherriff's/officer who act like that should be fired, and replaced by people who will respect our rights.

  14. #14
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    That said... I'm gonna get crucified for saying this on here, but I'm thinking they should just do this amendment and get it over with. .
    Please have more respect for your rights and the rights of others. What you suggest is an affront to both our natural rights and utility. It's outrageous and idiotic enough that we have to get a government permission slip in the first place. Besides that amendment being unworkable, I and many others would not open carry because it is offensive. Other people would not do it for the inconvenience. You would be one of the only people in Florida OCing and the movement would not get off the ground.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  15. #15
    Regular Member protect our rights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    can't help but feel people who think like you about not giving an inch when we've gained a mile are the ones that are going to cost me my long awaited OC rights.
    "Here's my card... Thank you have a good day."
    Hurts no one, shows respect, goes much further toward earning their respect, let's him/her go deal with criminals instead of me, and gets me back on my merry way.

    I am not a "freedom hating neocon" who believes in "evil ideas of conceding to 'papers please'" I am a normal person who wants to OC and would rather respectfully show my card for 5 seconds and get it over with. If I get stopped every day, I'll call the sheriff's office and discuss my problem.
    Have a good day, and please don't cost me my long awaited rights by causing unneccessary bad news opportunities against OCers.
    I wonder why it is you are even a part of this forum. You obviously are not pro constitution. If you were a black in the old days you would have been the one saying well it's easier to just go in the "black" restroom, no need to cause a seen. WOW! bet the African American community are happy they had someone that WOULD stand up for their rights. (M.L.K.) If a cop stops me walking along the road and is harassing me (even if being polite about it) I will politely decline to go along with the unconstitutional behavior. How is me suing an officer and winning against him going to hurt YOUR right to open carry. The most it will do is show other LEOs, "Hey! these guys are serious about protecting their rights and we better not try stomping on them. So in other words I believe a thank you from you to me is in order. For me willing to put myself on the line to get our rights fully restored. Unlike you my friend I believe in what our founder fathers preached.
    Last edited by protect our rights; 03-26-2011 at 04:00 PM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" - George Washington

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Hoover, Alabama
    Posts
    323
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    You won't have any problems from me, but I know there are others here itching for a confrontation about their rights; whoever's right, I'm still probably going to suffer for it.

    My answer to that question will always be "For lawful self-defense only, officer. I have my license with me if you'd like to see it."
    I do not want be held up or detained, whether rightfully or not. I'll always be respectful, and don't mind earning the respect I deserve in return as long as you/they are willing to let me earn it. I'm trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, police that they'll learn to accept OC and not give us a hard time after the first few experiences, and my fellow OCers that they won't go out of their way to make this transition any rougher than it needs to be.
    I said elsewhere here, my only law enforcement experiences were the two tickets I've gotten, and being asked about witnessing someone else's car crash. I'll be shaking bad enough when I get stopped for OC, I can't give myself any extra opportunity to screw up what I say then...
    I know here it come! But, shouldn't LEO/everybody treat you with Respect either way?
    Is not RESPECT something you should have without being earned until you lose it?
    This is my belief. just because I will be defiant does NOT mean that I will disrespect somebody.
    God Bless America.

  17. #17
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by maps761 View Post
    The archived video from the Judiciary Committee meeting on 3/24 is now available on the House web site at: http://streams.leg.state.fl.us/archi...03_24_8551.asx. It works for me with Internet Explorer 8, but not Firefox.

    At approx. 1 hour 20 minutes into the video, Lt. Rick Hernandez with Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office makes the statement that all "Man With A Gun" calls will be treated as Priority One with a minimum of two officers responding.

    At 1 Hour 51 minutes, Coats starts and at about 1 hour 54 minutes he makes the ridiculous statement that officers will be drawing down on citizens.

    I wish I had a way to capture streaming video. Tonight I'm going to try to record the video from my computer screen and if the quality is any good, I'm going to post it on Youtube.

    In my opinion, since he is the Sheriff and he sets policy for the department, he is conspiring to deny citizen's rights.

    He should be fired.
    On the Judiciary Committee page, right-click/SaveLink As (or SaveTargetAs, depending on what browser you use). It will save as a WindowsMediaPlayer play-list file (.asx) You can figure out how to load it to YouTube You may have to convert it to another format.

  18. #18
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by protect our rights View Post
    I wonder why it is you are even a part of this forum. You obviously are not pro constitution. If you were a black in the old days you would have been the one saying well it's easier to just go in the "black" restroom, no need to cause a seen. WOW! bet the African American community are happy they had someone that WOULD stand up for their rights. (M.L.K.) If a cop stops me walking along the road and is harassing me (even if being polite about it) I will politely decline to go along with the unconstitutional behavior. How is me suing an officer and winning against him going to hurt YOUR right to open carry. The most it will do is show other LEOs, "Hey! these guys are serious about protecting their rights and we better not try stomping on them. So in other words I believe a thank you from you to me is in order. For me willing to put myself on the line to get our rights fully restored. Unlike you my friend I believe in what our founder fathers preached.
    I wrote a lengthy, articulate and well-thought out reply, but since we're so big on constitutional rights, I'll just use the 5th. It is not worth sharing it, as you and your antagonistic buddies will do nothing but set out spending your free time tearing it apart word by word to make me sound worse over simply being willing to a show a stupid piece of plastic for 5 seconds once in a while. There is no way to convince you my stance is acceptable, even just for me, so... whatever. Thank me for not encouraging you to waste your time on yet another attack.
    Ok; thanks. Thanks for making me look nice and helping me get a positive response when an officer asks for my card and I say "here you go sir... thanks, have a nice day."

    Just don't get everybody riled up enough to re-revoke our OC rights, however limited they may be...

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    I wrote a lengthy, articulate and well-thought out reply, but since we're so big on constitutional rights, I'll just use the 5th. It is not worth sharing it, as you and your antagonistic buddies will do nothing but set out spending your free time tearing it apart word by word to make me sound worse over simply being willing to a show a stupid piece of plastic for 5 seconds once in a while. There is no way to convince you my stance is acceptable, even just for me, so... whatever. Thank me for not encouraging you to waste your time on yet another attack.
    Ok; thanks. Thanks for making me look nice and helping me get a positive response when an officer asks for my card and I say "here you go sir... thanks, have a nice day."

    Just don't get everybody riled up enough to re-revoke our OC rights, however limited they may be...
    Bingo. And:

    " How is me suing an officer and winning against him going to hurt YOUR right to open carry."
    -LOTS of luck with that, provided you even survive the encounter with the LEO at all,especially if he ends up being either some fresh on the beat rookie, some nervous/edgy/having a crappy day veteran, or whatever-and he interprets your response in a way that makes him escalate things..


    Ya, we get the constitutional bit, but guess what? There's what should be and then there's what there is-and ,contrary to fantasies of revolutions and/or cooperative politicians in office, there's what you, me and the next guy are going to end up dealing with in real life on the street.
    Just, keep a cool head is all, folks.Ease into things. There's going to be a serious adjustment period if this thing goes through-take it in stride,and ease folks to our side of things-including LEO's.
    If our resident hotheads go seeking out confrontations or making spectactles of themselves at every turn-from the word go- it's going to wreck things for all of us.

  20. #20
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Bingo. And:

    " How is me suing an officer and winning against him going to hurt YOUR right to open carry."
    -LOTS of luck with that, provided you even survive the encounter with the LEO at all,especially if he ends up being either some fresh on the beat rookie, some nervous/edgy/having a crappy day veteran, or whatever-and he interprets your response in a way that makes him escalate things..


    Ya, we get the constitutional bit, but guess what? There's what should be and then there's what there is-and ,contrary to fantasies of revolutions and/or cooperative politicians in office, there's what you, me and the next guy are going to end up dealing with in real life on the street.
    Just, keep a cool head is all, folks.Ease into things. There's going to be a serious adjustment period if this thing goes through-take it in stride,and ease folks to our side of things-including LEO's.
    If our resident hotheads go seeking out confrontations or making spectactles of themselves at every turn-from the word go- it's going to wreck things for all of us.
    Thank you! Yes, let's OC from day 1, but is it unreasonable to do so in a polite, unobtrusive manner, and without the I-ain't-showing-you-nothing attitude ?

    Ease into it. Don't use OC as a means to be pushy about every other issue on your personal agendas. If you've got issue with police violating your rights, can't you find some other way to breach the issue? Give people a chance to see that people with visible guns aren't argumentative or confrontational. Giving officers crap about showing your card from day 1 will not help advance our open carry rights and cause.
    Last edited by ~*'Phoenix'*~; 03-27-2011 at 05:50 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    I know here it come! But, shouldn't LEO/everybody treat you with Respect either way?
    Is not RESPECT something you should have without being earned until you lose it?
    This is my belief. just because I will be defiant does NOT mean that I will disrespect somebody.
    Yes, they should respect me as much as I respect them, which is completely as long as they aren't giving me any problems, which has been almost never.
    Unfortunately, I know their respect for me is gonna drop about 95% as soon as I have a gun on my hip without a shirt over it. Unfortunately, it falls on us to restore that respect we deserve by continuing to be respectful and cooperative (not capitulating, but cooperative) and doing our part to make our encounters end as smoothly and quickly as possible.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,567
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    can't help but feel people who think like you about not giving an inch when we've gained a mile are the ones that are going to cost me my long awaited OC rights.
    "Here's my card... Thank you have a good day."
    Hurts no one, shows respect, goes much further toward earning their respect, let's him/her go deal with criminals instead of me, and gets me back on my merry way.
    .
    Phoenix, I use to think like you, so I'm not going to call you stupid or anything. You simply just "don't get it" yet. And perhaps one day you will.

    The 2nd Amendment is the only amendment in the Bill of Rights with the words at the end, "shall not be infringed." Lots of good men died so we could have this constitution and be a republic free from the ridiculous British rule. (for the record, handguns are just about non-existant in England now) Because so much was sacrificed so we could be our own nation we had a document written that would lay our our RIGHTS so that the governing body couldn't strip things away we saw as a necessity to be a free human. Remember, at the end of the 2nd amendment the words "shall not be infringed" were written. Fast forward about 200 years and we have to get permission from the governing body to keep and bear arms, the right no longer exists even though the words "shall not be infringed" were added.

    In summary, we see anyone who is "cool" with the constitution being shredded as a ****** bag. Usually politicians or cops (not all of them). The whole "give and take" means nothing. You don't GIVE and TAKE with the constitution. It is the law of the land, there is no room for some off the wall interpretation, it is very clear. The right of the people to KEEP and BEAR arms shall not be infringed. PERIOD. So if I'm keeping and bearing arms at walmart, you CAN NOT infringe upon that. Since that is not a crime, you cannot violate my 4th amendment right and search my PAPERS (CWL) since I'm doing nothing wrong. But even then, the CWL means nothing since the 2nd amendment says SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED....

    Idk if that made sense, it kind of turned into a rant...

  23. #23
    Regular Member protect our rights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    Thank you! Yes, let's OC from day 1, but is it unreasonable to do so in a polite, unobtrusive manner, and without the I-ain't-showing-you-nothing attitude ?

    Ease into it. Don't use OC as a means to be pushy about every other issue on your personal agendas. If you've got issue with police violating your rights, can't you find some other way to breach the issue? Give people a chance to see that people with visible guns aren't argumentative or confrontational. Giving officers crap about showing your card from day 1 will not help advance our open carry rights and cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by ~*'Phoenix'*~ View Post
    Yes, they should respect me as much as I respect them, which is completely as long as they aren't giving me any problems, which has been almost never.
    Unfortunately, I know their respect for me is gonna drop about 95% as soon as I have a gun on my hip without a shirt over it. Unfortunately, it falls on us to restore that respect we deserve by continuing to be respectful and cooperative (not capitulating, but cooperative) and doing our part to make our encounters end as smoothly and quickly as possible.
    You think that is respect they are showing you? (once again using another rights movement.) So were the officers that POLITELY kicked the blacks out of the white building respecting them. Grow up and get some worldly sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Bingo. And:

    " How is me suing an officer and winning against him going to hurt YOUR right to open carry."
    -LOTS of luck with that, provided you even survive the encounter with the LEO at all,especially if he ends up being either some fresh on the beat rookie, some nervous/edgy/having a crappy day veteran, or whatever-and he interprets your response in a way that makes him escalate things..
    Who said I was gonna F*** this and F*** that! Screw you Copper!. I will simply state I consent to NO searches or seizures of my property. If he decides to escalate the situation then I would hope anyone with a lick of sense would listen and follow the LEOs directions. I love how you twist my words to fit the meaning that is easiest for you to attack.


    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    there's what you, me and the next guy are going to end up dealing with in real life on the street.
    Which one is going to get a LEO to respond better. A judge 400 miles away and a ruling against his beliefes, or the lawsuit against his buddy for $20,000?

    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Just, keep a cool head is all, folks.Ease into things. There's going to be a serious adjustment period if this thing goes through-take it in stride,and ease folks to our side of things-including LEO's.
    If our resident hotheads go seeking out confrontations or making spectactles of themselves at every turn-from the word go- it's going to wreck things for all of us.
    Once again twisting my words. I encourage you to look over my previous posts on this thread. Qoute me on where I said I will "bait them" or where I will "Refuse everything". Is there something wrong with me standing up for my rights? Like I always say, "there are Leaders in rights movements, and then of course their are the Feeders. (people who choose not to join in the movement but then reap the benefits.
    Last edited by protect our rights; 03-28-2011 at 12:08 AM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" - George Washington

  24. #24
    Regular Member protect our rights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    It is the law of the land, there is no room for some off the wall interpretation, it is very clear. The right of the people to KEEP and BEAR arms shall not be infringed. PERIOD. So if I'm keeping and bearing arms at walmart, you CAN NOT infringe upon that. Since that is not a crime, you cannot violate my 4th amendment right and search my PAPERS (CWL) since I'm doing nothing wrong. But even then, the CWL means nothing since the 2nd amendment says SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED....
    Well technically the owners could infringe by making you leave, but I believe you were talking about LEOs. Just so someone doesn't confuse your meaning.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" - George Washington

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,567
    Quote Originally Posted by protect our rights View Post
    Well technically the owners could infringe by making you leave, but I believe you were talking about LEOs. Just so someone doesn't confuse your meaning.
    Thank you for clearing that up. I was not referring to business owners, LEO was what I meant. I used just used walmart as an example of being out of the house in the public (on private property ). naw'mean?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •