Police impersonator reported in Louisa - advice for gun owners?

LEO encounters can be difficult enough when the cop is real, but what if he is an impostor? And what if he is targeting women? And what if some of these women carry (in accordance with the law)? What would be good advice under the circumstances? What if the fake cop, seeing a handgun in plain view, asks for her to surrender the gun to him -- and she does not comply? What if he escalates -- now what?

Police impersonator reported in Louisa

According to Lt. Jeff Sims, two women reported being stopped this month on Shannon Mill Road at night by a man in an unmarked car with flashing lights.

On March 4, a woman said she was pulled over by a white male in a gray sweatsuit driving a dark-colored car. He did not show any identification, but told her that she had rolled through a stop sign, Sims said.

The woman said he then went to his car, and when he came back, she said, he told her he wasn't going to give her a ticket.

A witness that lived nearby said the car was a large, dark car with no markings and blue lights.

On March 20, another female reported that a car with flashing blue-and-red lights came up behind her on Shannon Mill Road. The woman pulled into a driveway, then noticed that the car had a Mercury emblem and didn't have a front license plate. She said the lights were rotating on the car's dashboard.

Sims said the woman pulled away and the car did not follow her.

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What follows is the official advice from the Sheriff's department:

Sims said the Sheriff's Office is informing citizens that while Louisa deputies do use unmarked cars, all official vehicles have front and rear license plates.

"Please be aware numerous law enforcement agencies are present in Louisa with unmarked vehicles," Sims said. "Be sure to comply as much as is reasonable while verifying the officer's authority."

He said if one is stopped by an unmarked car matching the description in the reports, or if a stop by an unmarked car seems suspicious, drive slowly to an un-secluded area before stopping. Report any suspicious activity by calling 911, he said.

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I wonder about that 'official advice' -- many LEOs do not like it if you fail or refuse to comply with their show of authority. They might not accept your explanation that you were suspicious of them.

Calling 9-1-1 to report an unmarked car attempting to pull you over and requesting a marked unit to respond would be the first step. Next would be to remain on the line with 9-1-1 and state that you were proceeding, with 4-way flashers on, to such-and-such at a slow rate of speed (say for the sake of discussion 25mph) with your interior lights on. Third step is to request 9-1-1 dispatch to contact the unmarked unit to verify their ID and advise them of your intentions.

Be prepared to punch the accellerator if 9-1-1 advises you that there is no unmarked vehicle responding. Leave interior lights on if you can, and proceed to your previously noted destination while telling 9-1-1 you are now moving rapidly and will not pull over/stop until contacted by a marked unit.

Do not exceed the posted speed limit unless things turn into a situationwhere you fear for you immediate physical safety (you get rammed, shots are fired at you, etc.).

Keep in touch with 9-1-1 dispatch until the marked unit arrives.

Remember that convenience stores are more likely to be staffed late at night than rescue squad/fire department stations. Not that the stop&rob clerk is likely to actively protect you, but they and their security cameras can be good witnesses.

But most importantly of all - think through, plan and at least mentally rehearse all of your plans ahead of time. (As an example, how many of you state your location address as the first thing you say when 9-1-1 dispatchanswers and asks "What is your emergency?" Why? Because you may become unconscious/unavailable before you can explain why you need an ambulance/police/fire truck and not all phones are E911 enhanced - especially if using a cell phone. By stating your physical address at least dispatch can play back the tape and send someone to find out what sort of help you were going to ask for. [Learned that the hard way. Got the address out and then became uncommunicative. Thankfully FD and rescue squad were co-dispatched and the FD carried a paramedic who was able to do lots of good/needed stuff before the EMT showed up.]

stay safe.

skidmark said:

Calling 9-1-1 to report an unmarked car attempting to pull you over and requesting a marked unit to respond would be the first step. Next ...

stay safe.

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See, this is why you are qualified to say "stay safe" -- your advice, following "Next" is much better than what the sheriff's department gave.

Just yesterday, I was driving down I 664 and saw a guy in a black pickup truck driving erratically and who had blue lights on in his front grill. I immediately called VSP and gave them his license plate number.

If someone in an unmarked car pulls you over and is NOT wearing a uniform or visible identification, call the VSP (#77) or 911 immediately and ask for a uniformed officer to be dispatched to your location ASAP.

I tried this on rt 50 in fairfax a few years ago. Was about 2miles west of the mall heading eastbound i hit flashers and slowed to about 25 (it was 2am and could only see sirens not marking on cqr). I wanted to get to mall and try to park near a security camera but the officer put the spotlight on me after about 2minutes and i could not see to continue safely so i stopped. She asked why i didnt stop immediately and i told her i was scared it might be a fake leo trying to rob me. She asked rob me of what and that was enough conversating for me to ask for my ticket so i could leave.

I wonder what advice LEO's give about home invasion types posing as LEO's, and the use of no knock warrants?

Pagan said:

I wonder what advice LEO's give about home invasion types posing as LEO's, and the use of no knock warrants?

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Look at you like this and wait for someone else to ask a different question:

Pagan said:

I wonder what advice LEO's give about home invasion types posing as LEO's, and the use of no knock warrants?

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Makes their job even harder, I'm sure, esp. once the public gets wise to what the criminals are doing.

Although, thinking about it, probably the people the real police will use their home invasion skills on are mostly criminals (a few innocent civilians, wrong addresses, misunderstandings, etc. - see below), who are already ready to fight back, and in most states the probability that a criminal impersonator will run into an armed citizen is low.

Heck, I had real police invade my home Tues. night!
If they're supposed to be the good guys, I don't want to be up against the bad ones.
FOIA/ORR already mailed, docs will be sent to lawyer, then we'll decide what to do.
(Actually, I know one thing I'm going to do - put better locks on the doors! Esp. the storm doors.)

If I think someone is committing the crime of impersonating a LEO, and is attemting to commit a felony, my citizens arrest authority would certainly permit me to conduct an arrest, and use deadly force if required. Unmarked vehicles and no knock warrants, seem to put LEO and citizens at extreme risk of being harmed or imprisoned.

Being able to buy a uniform online or something is easy to do, but faking a marked cruiser is a whole other ball game, that I think all but the most well connected criminals could pull off, or even try for that matter.

Repeater said:

I wonder about that 'official advice' -- many LEOs do not like it if you fail or refuse to comply with their show of authority. They might not accept your explanation that you were suspicious of them.

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Having been offered the same advice from ranking officers in Virginia Beach and witnessing also the added agitation of a patrol officer when exercising such "caution" I should like to add my concern to the fray.

On the other count - No Knock Warrants.

Serving them should be (IS, in my book) illegal and unconstitutional. That collateral injury, death and/or destruction of property is often deemed acceptable by the departments which conduct these raids and the courts which DEFEND THEIR ACTIONS should only lead more to the desire of truly lawful citizens to demand the abolition of such practices.

Wylde i agree that the vast majority of no-knocks should be halted. There are very few instances where one would make sense i.e knowing that the suspect is going to shoot back knock or not, AND there is a time restraint that keeps safer methods (waiting them out/nabbing suspect going to 7-11 etc) from being practical. But meeting both those conditions is very rare. The vast majority of these no-knocks are done to prevent evidence (drug) destruction which certainly is not enough to outweigh the risks/4th concerns.

conhntr said:

The vast majority of these no-knocks are done to prevent evidence (drug) destruction which certainly is not enough to outweigh the risks/4th concerns.

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Nor the devices which provide for lawful citizens to defend their lives, safety and property when a no-knock becomes a home invasion.

I should have every right to defend my home with deadly force, regardless of who is on the other side of the door, if I believe my life and safety are in the balance.

We have been given every indication that law enforcement is not to be held accountable for mistakes made in these endeavors and that "accidental" murders and destruction of personal property and residence is not a primary concern of those serving the warrants nor those issuing them.

You cannot bring back dead people. How many innocent people have law enforcement killed because of bad intel, botched raids or coerced confession? How many millions of dollars in property damage has been done as a result of gross negligence by investigators?

How many people who attempted to defend themselves in the face of this most brutal of exercises found themselves dead or serving time for a capital crime?

A cop's life is NOT more valuable than a citizen's.

A cop's life is NOT more valuable than a citizen's.[/QUOTE]


Amen!

Pagan said:

Being able to buy a uniform online or something is easy to do, but faking a marked cruiser is a whole other ball game, that I think all but the most well connected criminals could pull off, or even try for that matter.

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Not really Pagan. I watched the Prop man put together the Police car for Lake City, in a parking lot. He couldn't figure out how to make a dummy light bar work so I added some lights, flashers and spinning motors in about an hour.

Looked pretty good in the movie.

peter nap said:

Not really Pagan. I watched the Prop man put together the Police car for Lake City, in a parking lot. He couldn't figure out how to make a dummy light bar work so I added some lights, flashers and spinning motors in about an hour.

Looked pretty good in the movie.

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Dang, that is kinda creepy.

Pagan said:

Dang, that is kinda creepy.

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That's nothing:lol:

I pointed a new armorer toward some possible business this morning. Here is what he has to offer to Independent Movie makers:

Yeah, but how many of them can say they have Humvees, APC's and Tanks at the ready, or the latest .50 Cal (which no other prop weapon company can say they have? Even ISS cannot say that right now). You want the optical tracing Package.......done. Contact me.


to mount on top of the Humvee. Yeah, I will blow the others away. You want a mini-gun, I got it. How about helo's? I know who to talk to. Blackhawks, CH46, UH1N's No prob. You want to film at Marine Corps Air Station, Miramar, let me front you and assist your production. How about Ft. Irwin or Camp Pendleton? I have the access, if you have the will.